[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Kurokikaze]

Along with this system, I would like it if basic jobs could still advance, and those advancements would be used in cross-class skills.

I say this, because while the current cross-class system is... underwheming, it's a good idea and opens up a lot of different potentials in terms of builds and playstyles. My fear is that once specialization happens, the basics go away.

Basics in this case being the basic jobs. I personally always feel it's a waste to throw away stuff, but I'm not against re-doing it if absolutely necessary. With that said, should basic jobs advance along with specializations and advanced jobs, you could get a deep system that allows for plenty of customization.

Being able to switch specializations without great penalty (or none) I think is needed. As FF Online's hook (in a sense) is being able to experience everything without starting over.

In the end, specialization skills can only be used on that spec, while basic skills (such as ones you get from PUG, CON, etc) can be used on all jobs regardless of spec. Currently the motive to level jobs high is to be more versatile, and I like that the progress I've made on one job could help the job I want to play.

Another thing that worries me generally about this is SE's ability to design useful skills. Of course, every job has filler skills and useless trash, but in XIV I see a lot more useless skills and WS than useful ones. This is likely a side-effect of cross-class, but the skills seen are quite lacking in imagination and even more in utility.

Edit: As for one of the systems suggested last page, I think that a specialization should be accessible from certain jobs, but having two different types of WHM depending on what class you choose to get there is an unncessary step. Leave that stuff for the specialization tree to handle. I like the idea conceptually, that a WHM that came up from a THM is different than a WHM that came up from a CON, but that's a lot of fiddly design that's somewhat unnecessary.

The Base Class progress along with the Advanced Class. If you hit 50 PLD and reset your points you're now a 50GLA. Think of it like this "Gladiator-Paladin" or "Gladiator-Dark Knight". Riot Blade will be usable on either spec but not on another class.

Difference from how it works now:
Abilities that are learned while progressing Gladiator (some basic WS, generic buffs) can only be used by Classes that branch off from the base with a line drawn at a center level that says "any skills beyond this point cannot be used by anyone else".

Yeah I agree Elcura, execution is not SE's strong point. I've seen one too many things in update notes that at first I'm like "!!!!" but then "....".

[Elcura]

The Base Class progress along with the Advanced Class. If you hit 50 PLD and reset your points you're now a 50GLA. Think of it like this "Gladiator-Paladin" or "Gladiator-Dark Knight". Riot Blade will be usable on either spec but not on another class.

This much I don't mind, more or less.

Difference from how it works now:
Abilities that are learned while progressing Gladiator (some basic WS, generic buffs) can only be used by Classes that branch off from the base with a line drawn at a center level that says "any skills beyond this point cannot be used by anyone else".

This is the difference for the most part. Let me try to illustrate what I'm thinking better (I did this on BG already, lol).

You have a 50 GLD that can turn into a DRK or PLD. You progress with DRK and/or PLD like you would intend them to. You gain skills for that specialization, and those are usable by GLD and all GLD related jobs (though mine was limiting in that only PLD could use PLD skills, and DRK could only use DRK skills).

But let's say, while leveling PLD or DRK, that your GLD grows at an equal or slower rate. So you could be a 50 GLD/50 DRK or 55 GLD/60 PLD. Whatever it is, that much doesn't matter. But the skills you gain for your GLD, and your GLD only (these skills aren't related to either DRK or PLD) could be used on any job. Say GLD got an ability to raise defense from all angles, you could use this on GLD, DRK or PLD.

But! If you were to use PUG now (and say PUG turns into MNK or THF), you would be able to use said GLD ability on PUG, THF, MNK, DRK, or PLD. However, skills you get from MNK or THF, are useable only on PUG, MNK or THF, and not on GLD, PLD or DRK.

Essentially, what it boils down to is you playing a specialization you want, getting skills for that and for the basic job that comes along with it as well as the ability to cross class BASIC skills.

I say all this, because I hate the idea of a class falling to the wayside. Besides that, even with your proposal, if you went from 75 DRK and wanted to repec to PLD, you would be a 75 GLD at some point. I think it makes sense, given what you said if GLD still gains its own skills. The difference being, that these skills are cross-class.

Edit:

And to add a little more on why I like cross-class abilities, it's because that progress feels tangible. The progress I made on MRD can be seen when I play THM or PUG. And while these abilities aren't always super useful or necessary, they do fill up slots and can help you further achieve your role and goal. Gaining defensive abilities from MRD isn't necessary, but then again neither is wearing any gear (I kid), but the fact remains that it's nice to see your progress like that.

And while this should remain relatively low key, it's a good boost to have.