Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[TheUltimate3]

Having to work for a Relic + 1 is completely different than having to pay hundreds of thousands of gil for 3-5 pieces of Materia to fill out every slot in every piece of armor you have. Also, Community =/= you making tons of gil off other players. The fact is, making top level gear would ruin the game. You could RMT your way to the top without working for it at all (and people WOULD do this). Also, adding Materia or other systems like Materia to end game would do nothing but cause more people to be excluded from content. And like with top level crafted gear, it would also help RMT to thrive even more as people would just pay real money to avoid the then mandatory gil grind.

I could RMT my way to get a lot of gil and then spend that gil on a merc FC to carry me through end game. Result: I still paid my way to the top.

People aren't even asking to make top end stuff, they just want the stuff they can make to actual matter and be relevant.

[Versiroth]

I could RMT my way to get a lot of gil and then spend that gil on a merc FC to carry me through end game. Result: I still paid my way to the top.

People aren't even asking to make top end stuff, they just want the stuff they can make to actual matter and be relevant.

You could pay for 10 runs of Coil (10 weeks) and never get a single drop. Heck, I've only gotten one piece of tank loot in the last 5 weeks doing Coil. There's the difference right there. If you could craft 110 gear, then I could RMT the gil, pay you, and then... I don't know... quit? I mean, I already have the best gear in the game.

As is, they give you entry level crafting gear (i70 before and soon to be i90), which is good enough. Your craftable gear gives people options. Stop charging 3 to 400K (what ilvl 70 was before 2.1) per piece and maybe more people will take your option over grinding myth for alts.

[Lord_Zlatan]

You could pay for 10 runs of Coil (10 weeks) and never get a single drop. Heck, I've only gotten one piece of tank loot in the last 5 weeks doing Coil. There's the difference right there. If you could craft 110 gear, then I could RMT the gil, pay you, and then... I don't know... quit? I mean, I already have the best gear in the game.

As is, they give you entry level crafting gear (i70 before and soon to be i90), which is good enough. Your craftable gear gives people options. Stop charging 3 to 400K (what ilvl 70 was before 2.1) per piece and maybe more people will take your option over grinding myth for alts.

I would buy the gear for sure, but it goes beyond that. People like to craft... just because. Furthermore, people would do it if there was a point to the materia system. at this point, crafted gear = gear with materia. The materia is terrible, so no one wants to invest in a +1 stat when it will most likely be useless.

[TheUltimate3]

-snip-

There is no difference. I could pay for 10 weeks, get nothing, then simply pay for more. At the end of the day, I could still RMT my way to the top, regardless of how long it takes.

And when you end up with a market where items made from items that cost myth costs an arm and a leg, the end product has to also cost an arm and a leg.

Though this obviously gets into the finer points of economics which you have no interest in so arguing that point is moot. But it does bring back my question: if the items for crafting can easily, and I mean mindnumbingly so, replaced by even the lowest tier of dungeon gear, then why have crafting at all?

I really want to know a "anti-crafters" opinion on that.

EDIT: And I'm aware that they want to revamp the Materia system, to make it far more useful and I'm aware that could change things greatly. I am also aware that people would rather it not be like WoW where things got really "You must enchant this or no invites ever!".

[Versiroth]

snip

So, buying your way to the top in 10+ weeks is the same as doing so in a couple hours? The fact is, crafters will be able to make i90 equipment. The only other way to obtain i90 equipment is to spam BC and fight range or grind out myth. So, you are one of three different options. How is that not relevant to end game? Just because you're only an option, instead of being the only source doesn't mean you aren't relevant. And even then, with Materia, your gear could actually end up being better than the BC/Myth gear. Which would mean the only gear better would be Soldiery tome gear and BC2. Again I ask... how are you not relevant in end game?

Honestly... is Myth not relevant either because people can simply spam BC over and over? Just because you're not getting rich and selling your pieces faster than you can make them doesn't mean that some people won't find them useful.

[TheUltimate3]

-snip-

1) You keep arguing that crafters just want to get rich. Others keep pointing out that the crafting system in this game what is broken. I find this amusing.

2) As 2.2 is not here, my point was more directed to 2.1, where crafted gear in general was not used, the largest reason was "Why buy/make it when the cost of doing so is greatly higher than simply spamming AK and getting Darklight. Who knows how things will change in 2.2. I highly doubt it will change much. Same problem exists; why bother going through the effort of making crafted gear when myth gear is easier to get and better.

3) Yes, buying my way to the top in 10+ weeks is still buying my way to the top. There is literally no difference.

[Nenin]

1) You keep arguing that crafters just want to get rich. Others keep pointing out that the crafting system in this game what is broken. I find this amusing.

2) As 2.2 is not here, my point was more directed to 2.1, where crafted gear in general was not used, the largest reason was "Why buy/make it when the cost of doing so is greatly higher than simply spamming AK and getting Darklight. Who knows how things will change in 2.2. I highly doubt it will change much. Same problem exists; why bother going through the effort of making crafted gear when myth gear is easier to get and better.

The cycle shall continue.

The new crafted gear will require myth tomes or some equivalent. However, each crafted piece will again cost 2-6x the tomes compared to the vendor counterparts. The initial supply of crafting ingredients will be very low and they will cost exorbitant amounts while everyone gears up by purchasing the vendor items.

Then raiders will need consumables or enchants or something, so they will make money by selling the tome ingredients to crafters. The final step is for the raiders to complain about the money grubbing crafters trying to rob them blind when they see the price of crafted gear. And thus, the circle of blissful ignorance is complete.

[Versiroth]

1) You keep arguing that crafters just want to get rich. Others keep pointing out that the crafting system in this game what is broken. I find this amusing.

2) As 2.2 is not here, my point was more directed to 2.1, where crafted gear in general was not used, the largest reason was "Why buy/make it when the cost of doing so is greatly higher than simply spamming AK and getting Darklight. Who knows how things will change in 2.2. I highly doubt it will change much. Same problem exists; why bother going through the effort of making crafted gear when myth gear is easier to get and better.

3) Yes, buying my way to the top in 10+ weeks is still buying my way to the top. There is literally no difference.

It's not broken, you're just not happy that you can't make the best gear in the game. That's a design choice by SE, nothing broken about it at all. And I saw plenty of people pre 2.1 with crafted gear. Mainly because at the time, it would take spamming WP about 50 times to get a full set of DL. Post 2.1, sure, Crafted gear is useless because we're all swimming in tomes. Depending on how easy myth tomes are to come by in 2.2, crafted gear may be a good alternative again.

Also, a difference of 10 weeks is a pretty huge. It's baffling that you're still arguing this point. Come on... a few hours and 10 weeks is "literally" no different? Please....


EDIT: Personally, I hope were all swimming in Myth tomes post 2.2.

[TheUltimate3]

-snip-

1) Another argument you keep making but no one else is. Making the best gear is not the problem. Of course nobody expects to make the best gear when you have something like coil that exists.

2) However despite point #1, making something that is harder to obtain (when all factors are taken into account) worse than something that is easier (yes, tier 1 tomes are easy to get) to obtain, is the problem. That is broken by definition.

3) And chances are high that we will be swimming in as much myth tomes as we currently are in philo. Which means, still that the ease of getting myth items greatly out scales the difficulty to get (again when all factors are taken into account) crafted gear. And that is broken.