I hate the idea of Echo Buff. It should be part of some easy server not whole game.

[Kyousha]

If this buff can be applied to a character after 3 minutes of combat, whats to stop people from synchronizing their watches and saying "okay 3 minutes are up everyone wipe" and doing this 5 times?

I'm not gonna read through these 11 pages, because I'm just on my lunch break from work and don't have much time. But they DID say that players "NEED to try their best" during the first 3 minutes, which suggests that if players just stand idle for 3 minutes and then wipe just so they can receive their buffs, not a damn thing will happen when the try a 2nd time... ...no buffs for them. At least, that's what I gathered.

[Amberion]

Snip!

Liked!

I'm like you, I never cried because I wouldn't get that relic, D.Ring or k.club. And since only a small amount of people had those, those items remained special.

You know, you hear the term entitled and special snowflake often on this board. And well, it's always targeted towards the hardcore/endgame people.

I kind of think it's more entitlement when someone goes, "I most be able to do everything, kill everything and have everything in the game".

[DarkslayerG]

Liked!

I'm like you, I never cried because I wouldn't get that relic, D.Ring or k.club. And since only a small amount of people had those, those items remained special.

You know, you hear the term entitled and special snowflake often on this board. And well, it's always targeted towards the hardcore/endgame people.

I kind of think it's more entitlement when someone goes, "I most be able to do everything, kill everything and have everything in the game".

I see where you are going with this, but I disagree. What point is there for SE to make content that only a small subset of their players can enjoy?

Also, you got to look at the long term. Without things to help new players, they can never catch up. In addition, it'll leave a big gap between the "hardcore" crowd and "casual" crowd where it becomes hard to provide consistent content for both. If they followed the traditional style of building harder raids that only the top players can clear, people will eventually leave cause they aren't getting anywhere in the game.

[rhemi1]

I see where you are going with this, but I disagree. What point is there for SE to make content that only a small subset of their players can enjoy?

Those players would have a point and a stance if this game required a large time investment. As it stands, you can clear Turns 1-5 in an hour and all EX Primals in the same time. What remains is players that simply lack the skill, and worse, lack the desire to improve, and want the game brought down to their level rather than improve themselves. These players will make excuses upon excuses, and threaten to quit if the difficulty is not brought down. Which, honestly, they should. If a game isn't meeting your needs, you should stop playing the game, not beg the developers to bring everything down for you.

Unfortunately, these players are numerous, and every one of them brings a sub fee. So, devs have a choice: Leave content difficulty alone and risk losing revenue, or cater to these players while keeping their revenue.

Sadly, what inevitably happens is these players rocket through the now-nerfed content only to hit the same exact walls with the current content, become frustrated, and leave again until the whole cycle repeats itself.

[Evil_Betox]

Disable echo buff or use Party Finder like you guys always did. In DF you can't force people to play in the same way as you, of course you could nicely ask them to disable it like you guys always do when you want that speed run or want people to skip all cutscenes but i rather just finish the run quick since people in DF you will never meet again or anytime soon.

Anyway just keep using PF like always and you will be fine, nothing here is forced if there's options.

[Amberion]

Sadly, what inevitably happens is these players rocket through the now-nerfed content only to hit the same exact walls with the current content, become frustrated, and leave again until the whole cycle repeats itself.

This is so true, well also goes for the once that eat the new content for breakfast. And since new games ATM gives away gear more quickly, none have anything to do.

It's why newer games never see a stable server population any longer. You see a spike after patch/expansion, then a fast dive, then up after next and so on.

Also, you got to look at the long term. Without things to help new players, they can never catch up. In addition, it'll leave a big gap between the "hardcore" crowd and "casual" crowd where it becomes hard to provide consistent content for both. If they followed the traditional style of building harder raids that only the top players can clear, people will eventually leave cause they aren't getting anywhere in the game.

I guess I can see your point since this is such a vertically progression kind of game. Might not agree fully with it, but can see it.

I still think at least they should have taken longer to nerf it so hard. Sort of like nerfing it so it was at a range between casual and hardcore, something for those people in the middle. And after each patch, they move up a slot. That way you would also have more "current" content being played since you have 3 tiers of players.

[Mitternacht]

As others have stated the purpose of the Echo buff is to help bring newer or less progress players up to speed with current content. The content that is having Echo applied is being made irrelevant in 2.2 save to gate access to 2.2 coil and EX trials. It's not like this isn't something that has been a known fact for some time now.

If it didn't take an untoward amount of development resources I would suggest they create a series of normalized versions of the instances that synchronize effective item level to the recommended minimum, require to queued as a full party, don't have Echo, and force the 2-2-4 comp. Add in a series of associated achievements with a title and vanity reward. There, an incentive for those who already did it and a challenge for those who haven't done it before the Echo.

[Musashidon]

Sadly, what inevitably happens is these players rocket through the now-nerfed content only to hit the same exact walls with the current content, become frustrated, and leave again until the whole cycle repeats itself.

leave again? why because they only play for end game raids? no the reason there is the echo buff is to help them keep up with everyone so that instead of paying to play only 10% of the content they pay to play 90% of the content why would anyone play a game where they can only access a very small amount of content?

[Mitternacht]

leave again? why because they only play for end game raids? no the reason there is the echo buff is to help them keep up with everyone so that instead of paying to play only 10% of the content they pay to play 90% of the content why would anyone play a game where they can only access a very small amount of content?

Clearly out of good will to subsidize the fraction of the playerbase who are at the top of progression.

[SirTaint]

Why would an elitist even care? They are capped on primal weapons. Their main jobs have been i90 for months.

The only items they might still want drop from Twin and his drops will no longer be BiS.

Bring on the Echo those same people that need it will still be struggling with The new content.