[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Shazaam]

That's easily fixed. At the moment class affinity between similar classes like THM and CON is very high. I would say excessively high. To the point that cross classed abilities have the same potency as the ones from the equipped class.

Lower the class affinity across the board (making sure that abilities don't become useless) and people will use cross classing abilities as they should, as support for their main class abilities.

The fact that the system has balance issues doesn't mean that it needs to be completely scrapped, or mutilated to the point that it's not recognizable. It can simply be rebalanced.

Here is an easier way to fix it all:

Let certain earned abilities, like the PUG ability to get an extra 10% from healing spells, simply become passive on your character no matter what job you equip. You have 5000 hp... you get healed by a cure III for 500... you get an extra 50 hp... a small amount. * numbers here are all adjustable ( in practice you would probably change the skill to an extra 2% when not PUG-based main job).

It's like a merit system, you still get a small reward for having played and leveled other classes. I think everyone wants to be a better adventurer for having spent the time to level another class. Another example... the CON Fast Cast... once you learn the ability, all your magic spells will cast at an extra 2% faster regardless of what class/job you chose, and 5% faster on any CON-based class you chose.

These passives would be active after earning them, and never erased from your character. So your level 1 ARC would start with a passive 2% fastcast and passive 5% healing recieved, because your CON and PUG had already been leveled up.

This isn't a radical overhaul, it's just taking existing bonuses, and making them a part of your base character. Like merits from FFXI. It rewards players for having leveled a different class, fits into the lore, and removes the need for 'class afinity' that creates 'grey mages' that have access to any spell they like, while still allowing for balance.

EDIT: This is not for ALL ABILITIES, but perhaps one or 2 per class upon reaching rank 40 or 50.

For example: I have reached CON 50 and purchased the 'Fast Cast' ability with marks. From now on, any job I play will have a latent bonus of 2% faster cast time and 4% faster with CON-related jobs (BLM or WHM). That is the ONLY bonus I receive for having a CON 50. It reflects the time I spent leveling CON, and lets me utilize my CON knowledge on other classes, whilst my affinity with CON spells is reduced to 50%.

[Kurokikaze]

Here is an easier way to fix it all:

Let certain earned abilities, like the PUG ability to get an extra 10% from healing spells, simply become passive on your character no matter what job you equip. You have 5000 hp... you get healed by a cure III for 500... you get an extra 50 hp... a small amount. * numbers here are all adjustable ( in practice you would probably change the skill to an extra 2% when not PUG-based main job).

I'm sorry but theres not a single ounce of balance in anything you suggested. So what happens when you level everything, which people are actually really close to doing, and you have all traits...? Seriously, there shouldn't even be classes at that point and everyone is grey as you put it.

[Shazaam]

I'm sorry but theres not a single ounce of balance in anything you suggested. So what happens when you level everything, which people are actually really close to doing, and you have all traits...? Seriously, there shouldn't even be classes at that point and everyone is grey as you put it.

Perhaps I misworded my post, it would not be EVERY trait. Just one or maybe even 2 per class that become small bonuses like merits.

I am not suggesting that everything be available, but certain bonuses for leveling a class, akin to merits in FFXI. And at a greatly reduced benefit. Like I said, the number values should be reduced, changing Fast cast from 10% to a passive 2%. Perhaps one bonus for reaching lvl 50 that becomes passive. I like the thought that my main character in FFXI had an extra +2 to sword at level 20 from my having merited sword on my lvl 75 rdm.

It makes sense that after leveling my CON to 50 I would have some innate knowledge of magic, and thus I get a latent +2% magic potency bonus despite what job I pick. (again like FFXI merits)

Pick one or 2 certain abilities like 'fast cast' and let them have scalable increases as a passive (akin to merits). When you level everything, you get a number of small benefits like +3% heals done to you(PUG 50), +2% casting speed(CON 50), +1% damage(MRD40)... etc.

It isn't going to break the game, but it will set those who have earned the bonuses a 'bit' apart from the others.

[Abriael]

I am not suggesting that everything be available, but certain bonuses for leveling a class, akin to merits in FFXI. And at a greatly reduced benefit. Like I said, the number values should be reduced, changing Fast cast from 10% to a passive 2%. I like the thought that my main character in FFXI had an extra +2 to sword at level 20 from my having merited sword on my lvl 75 rdm.

Pick one or 2 certain abilities like 'fast cast' and let them have scalable increases as a passive (akin to merits). When you level everything, you get a number of small benefits like +3% heals done to you, +2% casting speed, +1% damage... etc.

It isn't going to break the game, but it will set those who have earned the bonuses a 'bit' apart from the others.

That honestly seems overcomplicated other than imbalanced.

Also, adding more passive stuff is, IMHO, not really a good idea.

The advantage of the current system is that, with all abilities being active, no matter how many abilities you have, you're still limited in their usage by stamina and plain time. You cannot use all your abilities at the same time, and while you may have a varied ability pool, you will always have to make a choice on which ones to activate at every given time.

Having abilities reduced as passives not only completely changes the system, making it way more boring, but it also completely removes the stamina/time limitations.

The only real problem with the current armory system is that you can use abilities from another class (as long as the affinity is high) pretty much like they were the abilities from your main class, basically giving those abilities a main role (and often replacing the abilities of your current class) instead of a support role like they should have.

That's why, IMHO; simply reducing affinity across the board would help. When I use a THM spell on a CON, it's potency shouldn't be almost the same as if i use it on THM. It should be nearer to 70%
If i use a THM spell on a physical class it should be reduced even further, like 50%.

That way people would be encouraged to stick to their role more, using cross classed abilities as a source of flexibility, without having full fledged tank/dd/healer/nuker hybrids.

[Shazaam]

@Kaze

Good points. My thinking wasn't as well thought out.

However, I think that there should be a reflection of the other classes you have leveled as 'character growth'. This was one of the main themes of FFXIV as far as I can remember. I think that simply being able to use the abilities of other classes is what leads to the 'gray' affect. Perhaps affinity (up to 50 or 70% as you suggest) should be controlled more by the level of the other classes?

I just want my char to reflect the fact that I have leveled CON or GLD to 50 even when I play a different class. (No, I have no class past 30 in FFXIV just to be honest)

And perhaps they could add an 'Affinity Percentage' bar to the abilities you are equipping? Surely that wouldn't be too hard if affinity is an actually calculated stat in FFXIV.

[Abriael]

However, I think that there should be a reflection of the other classes you have leveled as 'character growth'. This was one of the main themes of FFXIV as far as I can remember. I think that simply being able to use the abilities of other classes is what leads to the 'gray' affect. Perhaps affinity (up to 50 or 70% as you suggest) should be controlled more by the level of the other classes?

That may be a better idea, but slightly redundant. I mean that something like that is already in place, in a way.

If I have say GLA at 50, and CON at 20, and I equip Cure 2, it will still be Cure 2, no matter the fact that I'm level 50. On the other hand, a 50 CON will have Cure 3. That obviously has a much higher potency.
So no matter what, in the end, even as a 50 gladiator I'm not nearly as powerful as a healer as a 50 CON. This even more so if affinity is lowered across the board.

Unless I level CON further, I will still have to use abilities way under my level, further limited by affinity.