[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Shazaam]

@Kaze

Good points. My thinking wasn't as well thought out.

However, I think that there should be a reflection of the other classes you have leveled as 'character growth'. This was one of the main themes of FFXIV as far as I can remember. I think that simply being able to use the abilities of other classes is what leads to the 'gray' affect. Perhaps affinity (up to 50 or 70% as you suggest) should be controlled more by the level of the other classes?

I just want my char to reflect the fact that I have leveled CON or GLD to 50 even when I play a different class. (No, I have no class past 30 in FFXIV just to be honest)

And perhaps they could add an 'Affinity Percentage' bar to the abilities you are equipping? Surely that wouldn't be too hard if affinity is an actually calculated stat in FFXIV.

[Shazaam]

Which final fantasy had a spec tree? And CoD had the originality of leveling up and an amazing contol layout. So...I'm curious what don't you guys like about having a final fantasy tactics style of getting the advance jobs?

Spec tree, sphere grid, job ranks, license board... take your pick, it's all the same concept with a different GUI.

CoD didn't invent leveling up, it stole the idea and incorporated it. That made the game good. My point was that using other games ideas isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. It's about progress, and no 'Next-gen' game has been 100% completely original, they beg borrow and steal to make something fun, and we don't care as long as the end product is fun.

Sorry for the derail there.

Rerail:

Kaze has a good concept here, I want to throw some ideas at it and see if they help it even if most of them might suck. (actually, I should probably keep my mouth shut and think them through a little more.... gonna do that)

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah, I see that. I am in favor of using them for traits and such, but what exactly in your opinion is the problem of going top down to bottom? I mean, we aren't doing that at rank 1 since we have no access to uber skills but once you're level 50, shouldn't you be able to use the cool stuff you've gained freely? Or is there a balance factor to take into consideration? Obviously the encounters would be balanced with this in mind, and proper limitations (higher action costs) can be set for equipping skills from other specs (not classes, since the spec skills are class specific) so that you can't hoard all the top level skills from every spec within the class.

What do you think?

My problem with going from the top down is what is happening now. ;/

If you leveled two classes to max and you picked from the top you're taking away that other class' identity. It's like if back in FFXI if you could hand pick your skills from your sub regardless of what level it was. Where would you start? Near the top, thats where I would start because its the best possible choice. So I would take my RDM and level BRD then give my RDM Mage Ballad II (Lv56 spell) and make BRD useless.

[Cieth]

I approve of the license board.

[Abriael]

However, I think that there should be a reflection of the other classes you have leveled as 'character growth'. This was one of the main themes of FFXIV as far as I can remember. I think that simply being able to use the abilities of other classes is what leads to the 'gray' affect. Perhaps affinity (up to 50 or 70% as you suggest) should be controlled more by the level of the other classes?

That may be a better idea, but slightly redundant. I mean that something like that is already in place, in a way.

If I have say GLA at 50, and CON at 20, and I equip Cure 2, it will still be Cure 2, no matter the fact that I'm level 50. On the other hand, a 50 CON will have Cure 3. That obviously has a much higher potency.
So no matter what, in the end, even as a 50 gladiator I'm not nearly as powerful as a healer as a 50 CON. This even more so if affinity is lowered across the board.

Unless I level CON further, I will still have to use abilities way under my level, further limited by affinity.

[Betelgeuzah]

If you leveled to classes to max and you picked from the top you're taking away that other class' identity. It's like if back in FFXI if you could hand pick your skills from your sub regardless of what level it was. Where would you start? Near the top, thats where I would start because its the best possible choice. So I would take my RDM and level BRD then give my RDM Mage Ballad II (Lv56 spell) and make BRD useless.

Oh, so in your system cross-classing is possible but to gain access to higher tier skills you need lower tier skills first?

I've misunderstood then. In my method cross-classing these 'spec' abilities (starting from 30 or whatever) wouldn't be possible (like you can't equip skills from above lvl37 in XI). With that kind of system, you can start from top to bottom on the class you're playing only, and say, the more high rank skills you take from one (your current) spec the more the remaining 'top' skills from other specs end up costing. And you still can't just take high rank skills from other classes since they're class-specific.

If we thought of it as a License Board, you could start picking skills anywhere you want in any given 'spec' board within your current class (as long as your rank is high enough ofc) but you couldn't access other classes' boards (aside from the pre-rank 30 stuff) without changing your class altogether.

Sorry for the confusion .

[Crowley]

No necessarily "trees" but purchasing Guild Mark abilities that move towards an advanced job.

If they remove Phys Lv and a few other things, characters will be too "cookie-cutter". We all want character builds, and removing that element is MMO suicide. Part of "builds" are focusing on certain abilities that suit your fighting style, gear and stats. Akin to feats in D&D, they would be limited in number and improve a WS beyond the "stock" ability.

All you need are ranks to get WS now, this would flesh out characters some... I know they are attempting to do that with other job's skills .... but that does nothing for the feel of your main job per se.

[Kurokikaze]

Spec tree, sphere grid, job ranks, license board... take your pick, it's all the same concept with a different GUI.

Thank you Shazam. They are all the same concept. Even our current Action Traits Menu is a form of "talent tree" except that one lacks a GUI.

Maybe, they could do that to let people show off that they've mastered many classes but I'm not sure its needed. Shouldn't the ability of being able to switch when you want, wherever you want to something else when you have it leveled be enough? You can instantly change your roles on the go. "Group has enough tanks for this encounter and another player wants in but doesn't have another class leveled. You switch to DD or healer and let them in."

[Abriael]

My problem with going from the top down is what is happening now. ;/

If you leveled to classes to max and you picked from the top you're taking away that other class' identity. It's like if back in FFXI if you could hand pick your skills from your sub regardless of what level it was. Where would you start? Near the top, thats where I would start because its the best possible choice. So I would take my RDM and level BRD then give my RDM Mage Ballad II (Lv56 spell) and make BRD useless.

"taking away their identity" seems to be a bit overdramatic. In any case severely limiting the potency of cross-classed abilities solves the problem.
If I'm solo, the ability doesn't "replace" the presence of the other class. It simply adds versatility to my own character.
If I'm in a group, my ability will be way worse than that of the other class, so the best it can do is a support role.
Even if as a Gladiator I have Cure 3, with it's potency reduced to 50%, all I can do is throw in heals to support my healers and help my aggro (pretty much what paladins did in FFXI), most definitely I cannot main heal myself, or even less the rest of the group.

That can be pretty much extended to every class and ability across the board.

[Kurokikaze]

Oh, so in your system cross-classing is possible but to gain access to higher tier skills you need lower tier skills first?

Yes. In WoW it works like this 5 points > 10 > 15 > 20 > 25 > 30. The points don't have to be spent on that exact tier but they must be spent cumulative throughout the previous tiers before moving on (with the exception of the first obviously).