Monk should be more rewarding

[TrivariumOri]

Still think the only problem for now is that greased lighting lasts to short. Dragoons can go on the get go. Monks need to build it up, then lose it due to the boss jumping away (all primals) or doing an ultimate attack you need to hide from. Furthermore im loving monk and although I get your point its still flavour.

Most good monks can time their greased so that it is still active after jumps, this just comes from learning the rotations and mechanics of a fight.

[Zeronic]

Most good monks can time their greased so that it is still active after jumps, this just comes from learning the rotations and mechanics of a fight.

I get that, its possible, but its a harder then a dragoon who can pop right back up. Like I said, a small increase in its time wouldn't hurt.

[Sleigh]

Monk:

Higher ST DPS without considering BRD
Mantra
Int debuff

Dragoon:

Higher burst dps
Higher total damage
Higher AoE damage
Higher multi-DoT damage
10% piercing reduction
Less negatively impacted by mandatory/RNG down-time

So basically you have a DPS with a tank/party healing cooldown and a boss damage reduction skill vs a DPS that increases your BRD's DPS by 10%, will let you pass DPS checks with less gear, can destroy mechanics faster, and can AoE very respectably if the situation calls for it.

I guess we all know which one we'll be taking for progression groups.

Dragoon.

FTFY. Dragoon will probably be the progression melee of choice if nothing's changed, assuming the INT debuff is not a vital part of survival in that specific content.

[Megido]

The int debuff is just amazing against repelling cannons, divebombs, conflag explosions and stacked plumes.

[OPneedNerfs]

The int debuff is just amazing against repelling cannons, divebombs, conflag explosions and stacked plumes.

Divebombs? Conflag explosions? Stacked plumes? I sense sarcasm.

[MrDiezel]

What I took from this post: Next ranged dps class complemented by Monk. Great idea. lets roll with it.

[Shayuki]

I agree. The only reason to have Monk over Dragoon is Mantra. If you have a Bard the advantage is hilariously lopsided in Dragoon's favor unless you have both a Dragoon and a Monk which is superior to 2 Dragoons.

[Eclips]

FTFY. Dragoon will probably be the progression melee of choice if nothing's changed, assuming the INT debuff is not a vital part of survival in that specific content.

I really don't mean to repeat myself here, but I don't think you're quite getting the point of the post. Even though I pull exceptionally high numbers on my dragoon, I know that monk still tops the charts when giving steady up-time. Further, it's not like greased lightning drops off of your monk in any of the binding turns. So when you say something like highest sustained dps not including the bard increase, you're still talking about more damage.

That being said, monk is a clear cut winner in the progression department. When doing progression, squeezing 5%-10% more damage doesn't often make or break a fight. Things that make progression fights easier are tank / healer cooldowns and gear. I think often people forget that dps requirements are not very high in ffxiv. Monk has a 2 minute, 20% healing increase to the entire party. This can be used solely in the tank's cooldown rotation, or even after the party takes a lot of damage. The int debuff is also useful if the boss does any sort of magic damage. These 2 skills alone make the monk shine over dragoon, where dragoon's only benefit to the party is giving 10% more damage to the class that purposefully nerfs its own damage to make support songs.

[NoctisUmbra]

Most good monks can time their greased so that it is still active after jumps, this just comes from learning the rotations and mechanics of a fight.

Again, I said most fights have at least one forced GL3 drop. Some have many. There are plenty of jumps where proper timing can save it (which isn't that easy btw when dependent on the party's DPS) but thing's like Titan's Heart transition or Ifrit X's dashes just laugh at your attempts to save GL3.

I really don't mean to repeat myself here, but I don't think you're quite getting the point of the post. Even though I pull exceptionally high numbers on my dragoon, I know that monk still tops the charts when giving steady up-time. Further, it's not like greased lightning drops off of your monk in any of the binding turns. So when you say something like highest sustained dps not including the bard increase, you're still talking about more damage.

Unless the MNK, the DRG or the BRD in question is considerably under-performing here, DRG + BRD still matches or exceeds MNK. That's a problem. When the party has 2 or more BRDs, there would be no issue. However, currently it only takes 1 BRD in the party to put DRG's effective DPS at or above MNK's.

That being said, monk is a clear cut winner in the progression department. When doing progression, squeezing 5%-10% more damage doesn't often make or break a fight. Things that make progression fights easier are tank / healer cooldowns and gear. I think often people forget that dps requirements are not very high in ffxiv. Monk has a 2 minute, 20% healing increase to the entire party. This can be used solely in the tank's cooldown rotation, or even after the party takes a lot of damage. The int debuff is also useful if the boss does any sort of magic damage. These 2 skills alone make the monk shine over dragoon, where dragoon's only benefit to the party is giving 10% more damage to the class that purposefully nerfs its own damage to make support songs.

Not many fight's at endgame where the tank is taking loads of magic damage... at least not yet. Even that aside, the INT debuff isn't particularly strong. Similar to PLD's STR debuff, it significantly pales in comparison to any % damage based mitigation option. If by some chance a fight emerges when that INT debuff is enough to keep people alive, perhaps. That's a longshot.

DRG can also get mantra. So can BRD. Sure they're not as potent, but typically enough. Mantra is a crutch option. It's not something to rely upon anyway.

For DPS roles, DPS is of paramount importance. Your job is to maintain as high DPS as you can whilst avoiding mechanics and staying alive. Talking about progression in a game riddled with DPS checks of various degrees, you mean to suggest that 5-10% more DPS is insignificant. Really? Personally, I think it speaks volumes that you would even say that.

I can see where you're coming from though with the progression argument if I overlook that bit where you undervalue DPS in progression. MNK can indeed be more effective in progression than it is in farm-mode (assuming you've got an amazing player who will adapt to new mechanics quickly and not drop GL3 every opportunity). DRG on the other hand isn't any less effective in progression. It's more consistent. While we're on the topic of progression, BRDs are actually quite effective. It isn't a stretch for teams to run 2 BRDs for song flexibility in progression, among other reasons. At this point, DRG still takes the edge in progression.

[TrivariumOri]

Again, I said most fights have at least one forced GL3 drop. Some have many. There are plenty of jumps where proper timing can save it (which isn't that easy btw when dependent on the party's DPS) but thing's like Titan's Heart transition or Ifrit X's dashes just laugh at your attempts to save GL3.

Isn't that what you use perfect balance for, if you know there is a forced GL drop wouldn't you save perfect balance to regain the stacks and keep the dps up?