Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?

[Sorel]

Let the real crafters craft.

What is a "real crafter", in your opinion? No sarcasm. I'm asking an honest question. What actions should a real crafter be doing when he or she is crafting in FFXIV?

Someone who has fun analyzing the market, searching for demands and creating products for sale, rather than the crafting process in and of itself.

Isn't that more of a shopkeeper/merchant/trader and not so much a crafter/maker?

That is whatever the developers say it is. It's essentially both, emphasis on the businessman and not the producer. The producers are gatherers. The fun in producing should be holy **** look at all this stuff people want. The fun in crafting should be haha my bazaar sold.

I think I understand were you are coming from now. But I respectfully disagree with your assessment of what makes crafting fun and fundamentally what being a crafter means to the majority of us. I understand that it may have that meaning for you, which is OK. But neither I nor any of my personal friends who play MMORPGs craft for that reason.

There are people who like building houses so that they can sell houses and make lots of money. But their are also people who like building houses simply because they like building houses. The proceeds of the sale of the house is really only there to support their house building addiction. They sell houses so they can build bigger and better houses.

That describes me and my friends mentality in regards to crafting. We are probably fools, but so is everyone at one point in their MMO lives.

Sorry to have to disagree with you on this Peregrine. Don't hate me too badly.

[Peregrine]

If people are so scared about automatic levelling, a good compromise would be to be able to convert 2 hours of metal gathering into crafting sp in a half hour, not 3 hours, and guarantee hasty hands synths after certain levels. The odds of completing an iron nugget as a R50 smith by spamming enter is 100%. Not 92. Not 97. Guaranteed. Mimic that with hasty hands.

That is, silver javelin heads don't take 40 seconds a synth to NQ. They take 7 seconds.

Anything to remove the pretense that the time spent spamming enter to progress through crafting is a LEGITIMATE price challenge or difficulty, because it's not. It is making everything WORSE.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Xenor, I just want to point out that the 90k figure for an ore is quite exagerated. Mats prices will go up with the increased demand of course but would still follow the economic trend. If it comes to a point when it's too high to afford, it will go down since no one will buy it, more people will go farm that mats wanting to make money and the over supply will make the price drop.

Again, as in WoW, some mats are expensive yes but never so expensive that you can't afford it. If you don't want to go farm your mats to craft your stuff, then you need to bring out your gils.

[Peregrine]

What makes your solution of paying 90k per gold ore any better than the way it is now? Everyone can afford to spend time pressing enter to rank up crafts but very few have the funds to blow away 10mil per rank to get to 50. You're just putting crafting into the hands of the super rich with that. Sure you could gather that gold, but you already can't gather it fast enough to rank up GLD on it, no way you could if it was auto levelled. So you'd be forced to pay that 90k regardless.

That said no one would rank up GLD on electrum if ore cost that much. People already bot sea hares for red coral to rank up GLD on that because it's easier than botting gathering nodes and they get more GLD SP. So the botters would just heavily bot mobs that drop skill up items while people like us will be forced to pay for the ores because we can't compete with people botting mobs.

But anyway if you put crafting into the hands of the super rich you create a situation where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor because they can't afford to catch up.

My solution is better because if people are too lazy to gather, they're usually too lazy to craft and they just bot it up.
This system wouldn't play to the super rich.
I'd have all your gil within a month and a half even if you started with 350 million.
This system plays to people willing to work for it. Work well and work actually. Not simply putting in warm body hours like crafters do now. That's cheap labor.

Crafters who are too lazy to gather are also too lazy to craft. That's why they're barely there during crafting, if they are even there at all.
And this system pays them for that laziness.

If the bots all flock to sea hares, have a GM waiting for them. you can see that kind of lazy player coming from a mile away. Rule number one: they will refuse to work and yet they will demand the pay.

You want crafting to be dominated by drone players with the most time to mindlessly spam the enter button.
That's a poor game. You cannot defend that.

[Peregrine]

I think I understand were you are coming from now. But I respectfully disagree with your assessment of what makes crafting fun and fundamentally what being a crafter means to the majority of us. I understand that it may have that meaning for you, which is OK. But neither I nor any of my personal friends who play MMORPGs craft for that reason.

There are people who like building houses so that they can sell houses and make lots of money. But their are also people who like building houses simply because they like building houses. The proceeds of the sale of the house is really only there to support their house building addiction. They sell houses so they can build bigger and better houses.

That describes me and my friends mentality in regards to crafting. We are probably fools, but so is everyone at one point in their MMO lives.

Sorry to have to disagree with you on this Peregrine. Don't hate me too badly.

I have fun building houses. I make a lot of aeolians for the server. That's a good house. I like building that house.
But if your house is making 1000 iron nuggets, then making who knows how many ornamental iron hammer heads to get from 44 to 45 blacksmithing, that's not a house. That's mixing concrete by hand. I have tools for that. I am a human. I am worth more than the time and menial skill involved in that activity.

I build houses. I don't mix concrete. My tools mix concrete for me.

I am a REAL crafter. I make WEAPONS. I craft TOOLS. I fill COMMISIONS.

Mixing concrete is what I have things for. The epitome of making houses is not in the menial tasks. That's why we have interns and machines.

Be a human. Know your real worth.

[syntaxlies]

I think they could make crafting faster with multi-item crafting but balance it out where the more items you try for raises the risk of failure. 2-4 items at a time more easily and anything over that and you may be at 50/50 or something along those lines.It is painfully boring.

[Airlea]

My solution is better because if people are too lazy to gather, they're usually too lazy to craft and they just bot it up.

Your solution would simply transfer the power of bots from crafting to gathering.

This system plays to people willing to work for it. Work well and work actually. Not simply putting in warm body hours like crafters do now. That's cheap labor.

How is that any different from crafting? You find a node, you hit enter several times. The SP rewarded and the SP curve are horrendous currently, making testing your patience the only challenge in ranking up and gathering items. Your ability to rank up comes from availability and endurance. You know, "warm body hours."

[Peregrine]

I think they could make crafting faster with multi-item crafting but balance it out where the more items you try for raises the risk of failure. 2-4 items at a time more easily and anything over that and you may be at 50/50 or something along those lines.It is painfully boring.

The problem with punishing what's right is that it's apologizing for the system that is being corrected against when that's not necessary at all. Murderous intent is a perfect example. Why is there a penalty that makes the ability nearly pointless? Why go through the trouble of designing content if you're going to shoot it in the foot as soon as you're finished with it?

There's be no point in reduced sp. Or higher fail rate sp. It should be 100% fully fledged, bona-fide sp.

There's no reason to reward meaningless enter mashing. None at all. People should be rewarded for choosing the faster method, because it respects the value of human life hours more.

[Peregrine]

Your solution would simply transfer the power of bots from crafting to gathering.

How is that any different from crafting? You find a node, you hit enter several times. The SP rewarded and the SP curve are horrendous currently, making testing your patience the only challenge in ranking up and gathering items. Your ability to rank up comes from availability and endurance. You know, "warm body hours."

There are no functional gathering bots, how about you start arguing the reality we operate in instead of the one you're making up. There are gathering bots you have to physically lug around to each node and MAN what a pain that is says the craftbotter! I have to DO something other than start it up? Heck no!

Acceptable. Appropriate. Desired even. This is a good change. You're right. It does shunt power back to gathering. Where it belongs, is safer, and is in the hands of more responsible players.

Warm body hours on gathering are more appropriate than warm body hours on crafting, because gathering's more involved than spammin that enter button like a mindless drone.

If you don't want to gather, you sure as hell shouldn't be crafting. In fact, the only player who doesn't like to gather, but likes to mindlessly spam on crafting...is a cheater who isn't really there. To every real player, crafting is WORSE than gathering. Only reason they like crafting is because they can't CHEAT gathering.

Or at best someone who watches a lot of netflix, which is just silly to justify that your entertainment is so BAD that you need to be entertained by someone ELSE'S product while you play it. Fail.

If you have to supplement your crafting with netflix, that system has already failed. Stop defending it.
If you don't like to gather because you can't watch Netflix (or frankly cheat at it), that's skewed frame of reference talking, where you're comparing it to the stupidly designed crafting grind where ther'es one button.

[Sorel]

Crafters who are too lazy to gather are also too lazy to craft.

I'm not sure so please clarify for me.

Are you saying that all crafters should be gatherers? And those crafters who rely on gathers (in their LS or in the free market) for supplies are "lazy"?

EDIT: Nevermind. You very last post clarified my question.

If you don't want to gather, you sure as hell shouldn't be crafting. In fact, the only player who doesn't like to gather, but likes to mindlessly spam on crafting...is a cheater who isn't really there.

Thank you.