Melee DPS not allowed anywhere, Thx SE.

[kukurumei]

As for Garuda Ex, i simply dont understand where is the problem of the people for not wanting a melle in the party.

I personaly dont have any problems to dodge the aoe atack, the only atacks im getting hit are the once you cant do a thing about them!

Then again 90% of failing the Garuda EX is thx to the either tanks or healers! But yeah blame the melle class !

There is no problem, there's a solution, aka brute force. Garuda EX is not a high ilevel like Twintaina or even Turn4. By having powerful range you can bypass the mechanics of the fight easier then having a melee.

Garuda's Wicked wheel power was set up such that you had to use well coordinated team work, and experience traveling through tornadoes for melees. While the friction sisters were meant to penalize range people. But by stacking enough ilevel you can "eat" the friction and still make the dps check needed for the fight.

It's basically brute force the requirements for pugs.

A good Garuda EX killing team will have melees and range, because it sure goes down much faster that way. (And more people to bait friction)

[Kyri]

Every job has ups and downs from playing them myself (except my bard who's only liability is when you find out 3 of the other dps are bards..) And though I agree monk and dragoon have hard fights in some cases, all this BLM talk I find unfair. in a well geared party I can't hold a match to a well geared monk.. Sure they have to move risk the chance at messing up rotation but on many fights I have to stop casts almost every few seconds to avoid damage myself. I won't say my damage is lackluster I usually do great damage but when your told the monk out did you by almost 200 damage but its ok you beat the bard, I would hardly say its as bad as you want it to be. Yes I am usually the MVP for things like turn 4 in coils but no.. melee damage is and can be insanely unfair when done right. Yes I can get mp back on the drop of a hat but what good is it when I cant stop moving to cast something?

[EmiliM]

It's like people are repeating the same points over and over again, but I'll add my 2 cents to the thread since it does need some kind of solution.

To be clear, the points melee players are trying to make are:

1. In an average fight, a melee DPS is exposed to more damage mechanics and other risk factors than a ranged DPS, in return for higher raw damage output. This, everyone agrees, is fair.

2. However, the difference in damage output is not significant enough to make a difference in most fights other than speed.

3. Random parties, by nature, have a low threshold for risk and mistakes. Nobody wants to "maybe" win quickly if they can "almost certainly" win only slightly more slowly.

The issue here, then, it's not so much that melee DPS better or worse than ranged DPS, and therefore this should be buffed or that should be nerfed. It's simply a matter of people being unable to make informed choices when selecting members for their party.

"Gee, I'd sure love to have a couple of skilled melee DPS on the team since they can make the fight much easier/go by faster, but since I have no way of knowing who's skilled and who's not, I'd better play it safe and just recruit ranged DPS only"

This is the problem. And I have no idea how to fix it other than maybe introduce some form of "proof" of job-relevant skill check into the game and integrated into the party-finding process. Which introduces a new set of headaches like people setting conditions like "melee DPS who holds proof of <something ridiculous> only, will check". But at least this will possibly open up the groups more to all the melee dps players who are constantly shut out despite being skilled enough to clear the content.

[AjoraOak]

Those are the ignorant groups.I've managed to dodge Wicked Wheels perfectly in Garuda Extreme and am able to predict them and react accordingly, and good luck with having no Melee limit break to help you out. If you can't adjust your strategy based on the roles of the group, then you are just being lazy.

I've done all things with melee and without, the main difference is that in a pug a ranged setup is far safer based on the low level of intellect you are expecting from the people you recruit and casters can basically replace the melee LB as much as melee wanna believe that's not true. In a real situation, as a monk on garuda ex I've done more than 40k over the next highest ranged dps in the group (not even counting a lb3) and I've done far more than any other ranged on titan/ifrit as well. Problem is, melee complicate the already stupid mechanic for healers in ifrit ex and unless a melee is experienced in garuda they're just dead weight. There's no way to fix it other than to remove all these pointless one shot aoes and have them focus on making fights that can actually be done with more than ONE melee. Example, legit turn 2 with all melee would be a huge inconvenience while all ranged will work wonderfully. The fact that full ranged is acceptable while full melee isn't should be one of the easiest ways to tell if the fight is designed correctly.

[chumsy]

It should be Melee = higher single target dps, ranged = better AOE. BRD should not be able to shoot on the move, that brings them above other caster dps. But hey since when was any MMO balanced.

[Ri_ri]

The fact that full ranged is acceptable while full melee isn't should be one of the easiest ways to tell if the fight is designed correctly.

If full melee were doable no one would bring any ranged besides bard. Their damage is already too high.

Black mage is my favourite job but being beaten by dragoon no matter the fight (even if I stand still 90% of the time) is really killing my enjoyment of the game. Being accepted in more fights, but underperforming to the single melee, isn't fun either.

I like playing dragoon too but, something as fragile and un-mobile like black mage shouldn't be losing on the damage to a job that can get almost 5000 HP and has higher defense ratings.

[Zumi]

I don't even play my melees much but the dreadnaught mechanic on Twintania is so melee unfriendly they lose so much dps uptime because of it, makes the fight slower for every melee you take. SE really shouldn't design mechanics that penalize melee so much.

[Meimei]

Reduce the brd dps when foe requiem is on.

Why? The vast majority of them don't use songs, ever. It's all one big L2P issue.

As is this thread. Nothing wrong w/ melee in any fight period. Unless they're terrible. Which, sadly, is often the case.

Bad players are always the root of the problem, not class concepts nor mechanics.

[Kyri]

If full melee were doable no one would bring any ranged besides bard. Their damage is already too high.

Black mage is my favourite job but being beaten by dragoon no matter the fight (even if I stand still 90% of the time) is really killing my enjoyment of the game. Being accepted in more fights, but underperforming to the single melee, isn't fun either.

I like playing dragoon too but, something as fragile and un-mobile like black mage shouldn't be losing on the damage to a job that can get almost 5000 HP and has higher defense ratings.

Totally agree 100%

I don't even play my melees much but the dreadnaught mechanic on Twintania is so melee unfriendly they lose so much dps uptime because of it, makes the fight slower for every melee you take. SE really shouldn't design mechanics that penalize melee so much.

Twin is a pain in the butt for anyone as casters both healers and blm when we get hit with bombs even at full hp in shroud with two pets we only have about 1/10th of our health left after getting hit.

[AjoraOak]

~

That's ignoring the point of being ranged, you're supposed to be fragile since you are out of the range of cleaves/pbaoes and have that range advantage in pvp (not that pvp matters in this game). Melee have always had a tough position and usually do the same damage as ranged once you factor in all the nuisances they have to avoid. I was under the impression that blms were still considered one of the strongest except in high movement fights which is basically down to titan so I dunno what to tell you about being beaten by dragoons.