Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[BrandoH]

allow me to rephase :

For those with high ilv gears (85-90) and not caring about acc, how's your dps on extreme primals? There seems to be a lot of downtime and most of the other class of equivalent ilv gears seems to be dishing more dps output (based in order of emnity). Is this supposed to be the case?

I mean, you're a non-BRD/SMN on a Titan fight. That's just the way it is.

[kaethe]

I mean, you're a non-BRD/SMN on a Titan fight. That's just the way it is.

can i assume it's the same for the other 2 primals and its an inherent problem for melees and not just DRG in particular?

not being competitive on dps, but just wondering if ive not been maximising DRG's potential


and what rotation do you guys use to break Ifrit's nails?

[EasymodeX]

and what rotation do you guys use to break Ifrit's nails?

1. Keep HT up.

2. If you are next to a double nail after HT (third nail phase), then chain ROT on both.

3. Use oGCDs.

4. Make sure to reserve DFD for a double nail (third phase).

5. Make sure to reserve SSD to move to the next nail.

6. Tab-Phlebotomize nails (second and third phases) clockwise*. When you run into the howling healer, turn around counter clockwise and get back with the DPS stack, using TTT on each nail. You should have 0 downtime because it takes less than 2.4x seconds to run from one nail to the next.

7. If using direct damage on double nails (third phase), use Doomspike.

8. Keep HT up.

Note: Both the PH spam and Doomspike will being to drain your TP hard. Don't blow it all and make sure you use Invigorate.

* When using this approach, you still want to nuke down the first nail to move the DPS stack and leave room for the healers. Start tabbing with PH on basically the third nail (nuke first nail, finish combo on second nail, but don't stick around, move to third nail and PH, then to fourth and continue). Be sure to continue to use oGCDs while moving and spamming PH.

[Eclips]

1. Keep HT up.
2. If you are next to a double nail after HT (third nail phase), then chain ROT on both.
3. Use oGCDs.
4. Make sure to reserve DFD for a double nail (third phase).
5. Make sure to reserve SSD to move to the next nail.
6. Tab-Phlebotomize nails (second and third phases) clockwise*. When you run into the howling healer, turn around counter clockwise and get back with the DPS stack, using TTT on each nail. You should have 0 downtime because it takes less than 2.4x seconds to run from one nail to the next.

7. If using direct damage on double nails (third phase), use Doomspike.

8. Keep HT up.

Note: Both the PH spam and Doomspike will being to drain your TP hard. Don't blow it all and make sure you use Invigorate.

* When using this approach, you still want to nuke down the first nail to move the DPS stack and leave room for the healers. Start tabbing with PH on basically the third nail (nuke first nail, finish combo on second nail, but don't stick around, move to third nail and PH, then to fourth and continue). Be sure to continue to use oGCDs while moving and spamming PH.

While this might seem good to maximize damage, I really don't see how this is a proper or even effective way to do the nails. I find that a simple impulse drive / disembowel combo / ocd abilities is generally the way to go. It helps control the healing / stacks for the fight.

I use IR / BFB at the start, then use them on cooldown until it comes close to the next nail phase. For the nail phases I use the BFB and Bloodbath to help maintain hp.

This strategy with decent dps generally allows us to kill all the nails (even the big one) without using limit break, and is much easier for the healers to manage because they're dying at the same pace.

I really can't imagine letting a dot tick out on any nail other than one near the tank (if you're chained and can't leave ifrit)


For reference: Ifrit as DRG i90 @ 436 accuracy // 227dps (22%) at the end of the fight

[EasymodeX]

While this might seem good to maximize damage, I really don't see how this is a proper or even effective way to do the nails. I find that a simple impulse drive / disembowel combo / ocd abilities is generally the way to go.

The IDC chain is bad for nails. Nails should not be surviving long enough for the CT DoT to have any meaningful impact if you use it on the nail being attacked. In addition, the pierce debuff is basically in the same situation unless your entire group is DRG+BRD. By the time you get the second GCD off, the nail should be down to 40-60% hp.

This strategy with decent dps generally allows us to kill all the nails (even the big one) without using limit break, and is much easier for the healers to manage because they're dying at the same pace.

We use this approach to sell Ifrit with 3 DPS. The nails should die at a consistent pace regardless, but that is a skillcheck for your group.

[Eclips]

The IDC chain is bad for nails. Nails should not be surviving long enough for the CT DoT to have any meaningful impact if you use it on the nail being attacked. In addition, the pierce debuff is basically in the same situation unless your entire group is DRG+BRD. By the time you get the second GCD off, the nail should be down to 40-60% hp.

You don't really need to use CT. The point of the combo is to put 400 potency on the nail +10% more for the bard before you move on. As long as the dps in the group is focusing the same nail, you really only get time for 2 globals, from my experience.

We use this approach to sell Ifrit with 3 DPS. The nails should die at a consistent pace regardless, but that is a skillcheck for your group.

While that strategy may work for your ifrit extreme selling group, I don't think the majority of players here are selling ifrit extreme while DPSing. I think most of them are spending their time trying to clear and gear. Asking a player in a duty finder group / whatever to spam dot ifrits nails just seems like a bad idea to me. In my opinion, it seems safer and easier to just focus one nail at a time until it is dead. If you have time for 2 gcds, impulse drive + disembowel. If you have time for 3, tt,vt,ft.

I think that really it just depends on your group makeup. If you're in a voip'd ifrit selling group with gear, it probably doesn't really matter how you want to optimize your strategy as you could probably maximize your dps by just sitting ifrit during the nail phase and letting your group take care of most of the nails if you really wanted to. I think answering Kaethe's question in a way that helps MOST players is more productive in this situation.

[EasymodeX]

You don't really need to use CT. The point of the combo is to put 400 potency on the nail +10% more for the bard before you move on. As long as the dps in the group is focusing the same nail, you really only get time for 2 globals, from my experience.
[...]If you have time for 3, tt,vt,ft.

180 220 180 220 180 220 = 200/s + 10% on remaining pierce-incoming health (50% base hp affected, half group applicable via pierce damage = 2.5% total nail EHP removed = 1/(1-.025) = 1% increased total DPS) = 200 + 1%*(200*4 * 1.3) = 210.4 pps

150 200 330 150 200 330 = 227 pps

Then again the staggered damage of the TTT can often be inefficient.


Not bad I guess. I would suggest that you preload the ID on the current debuffed nail then initiate with DE on the next where possible. Skipping to the next nail to drop a CT would be efficient. Actually you could get complicated:

ID on nail 1
DE nail 2 (apply debuff to full hp)
CT nail 3
ID nail 2
DE nail 3
CT 4
ID 3
DE 4
CT 5

That would be pretty interesting. Could throw the PH with the CT. Lot of hectic movement though.


PH spam seems a lot more stable with:

320 320 320 320 320 320 = 320 pps.


You can basically do 50% more damage during nail phase by being effective, or not. Note that Bards should be tab-dotting as well, which means less pierce debuff synergy than in a vanilla approach.

Moreover, you're basically pressing tab and pressing 1 button. It's pretty simple and leaves a lot of time for the player to consider mechanics.

Asking a player in a duty finder group / whatever to spam dot ifrits nails just seems like a bad idea to me.

Dunno, I just try to optimize DPS on a DPS class.

you could probably maximize your dps by just sitting ifrit during the nail phase and letting your group take care of most of the nails if you really wanted to.

That's very very stupid.