Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[EasymodeX]

So, for anyone who's been reading the detailed comments when I've posted stat weights and gear sets, and/or otherwise perusing the rest of the forum, determination has been somewhat of a ? mark for awhile. The original work by valk from beta resulted in a damage formula that most people have been using for awhile. This damage formula has been known to "undervalue" determination by some amount.

Recent work has been done to get a more accurate damage formula. Currently, I posted a pretty good approximation in the other thread (note: it is not the *actual* damage formula, which Eien and others are still working on, but it's reasonably close to actual results for a wide range of stats).

In sum, new damage formula with more better DTR representation results in new stat weights and new/old gear. The note on these weights: they probably won't change much even with a "true" final damage formula.

Stat weights (per point);

WD 8.488
STR 1.000
DTR 0.323
CRT 0.184
SS 0.152

Item budget weights (stat weights scaled to expected gear amounts - secondary stats):

DTR 3.55 (this is DTR stat weight * 11)
CRT 2.95 (CRT*16)
SS 2.43 (SS*16)

Absolute "best in set" for 482 acc:

HQ Buttons
Myth Belt
Allagan Boots
Myth Bracelet
Myth Chest
Allagan Earring Maiming
Myth Gloves*
Myth Helm
Allagan Leggings
Allagan Necklace Maiming
Allagan Ring Striking
Allagan Ring Maiming
Allagan Weapon

This is basically a DTR-optimized set of gear.

I think there was a tool someone else posted where you could input your weights and constraints -- you can use that for other optimized gear sets (for example, using HQ Eggs, or for 472 acc, or for no acc, pre-T5, etc).


* Yes the Myth gloves are basically bad with the skill speed sink on them, where you could trade for acc from the Allagan. This result is because there's a complex set of acc tradeoffs between item slots that does make this optimal. However, due to the exact #s of acc across Dragoon items, if you lower the threshold to 481 acc, that series of tradeoffs is reversed and you get a more intuitive "Allagan Glove, Allagan Helm" situation. The 481-482 threshold occurs frequently for the gear set thing. It would be nice if the gloves had 16 acc, not 15.

[Migosha]

Thanks for the work EasyModeX. If you're using a script for that, may you run it for 472 ACC?
It has been discussed before in this thread that the "482 acc needed for T5" seems to be more a rumor than a proven fact. All those who runned with 472 acc on T5 weren't able to get a miss (or I'm the one who missed a post on this topic), so I'd like to see a BiS set aiming for 472 ACC instead of 482.
I'll try to make that list myself, but a script will always beat me at this "game".

[Lucael_Shikaree]

Thank you again EMX. What about Pre-Turn 5 BiS? We're basically going back to the first version that was posted in OT?

[EasymodeX]

T5 472 (ends up at 476)

HQ Buttons
Myth Belt
Allagan Boots
Myth Bracelet
Myth Chest
EX Titan Earring Striking
Allagan Gloves
Myth Helm
Allagan Leggings
Myth Necklace
Allagan Ring Striking
Allagan Ring Maiming
Allagan Weapon

Pre-5 482 (485)

HQ Buttons
Myth Belt
Myth Boots
Myth Bracelet
Myth Chest
EX Titan Earring Striking
Allagan Gloves
Allagan Helm
Allagan Leggings
Allagan Necklace Striking
Allagan Ring Striking
Myth Ring
Myth Weapon

Pre-5 472 (475)

HQ Buttons
Allagan Belt
Myth Boots
Myth Bracelet
Myth Chest
EX Titan Earring Striking
Allagan Gloves
Allagan Helm
Allagan Leggings
Allagan Necklace Striking
Allagan Ring Maiming
Myth Ring
Myth Weapon

[JetBrooks]

Snip

Thanks a bunch for your work!

I'd like to note that it seems that chest remains the most valuable investment of myth tomes, as I think it is in every known BiS set at this point. Assuming you're worried about gearing up multiple jobs, this is pretty much the must buy for DRG.

I'd say myth belt and helm are the next most valuable investment of myth tomes, as they are in a whole lot of BiS sets as well.

Disclaimer: as always, if you have an available allagan drop, take the damn thing, and adjust your gear accordingly, if needed. Main stat always wins.

[Staris]

Any stat weight that says X is valued at X is incorrect.
The value of each stat in relation to current DPS changes based on current values of other stats.

Basically, the more Det you have, the less it is worth as a % increase of your total DPS.

The math is a bit more complicated then people have been doing for weights.

[ziddyt]

maybe a bit off-topic, but is there a chance you could let us know how the new determination info affects monk stat weights?

[EasymodeX]

The value of each stat in relation to current DPS changes based on current values of other stats.

Yes, but they don't change much. The weights I posted use a baseline of "near-BiS" to start with.
The only meaningful shift of stats where it would be worth resetting the weights or otherwise getting more complicated with the representation of the weights would be a SS-optimized build, since SS scales with itself. Problem: that's a terrible strategic approach anyways.

Basically, the more Det you have, the less it is worth as a % increase of your total DPS.

Not really. The more DTR you have, the more valuable CRT/SS (and other stats become). Ironically the weight of DTR in relation to STR remains the same.

Basically you would need a ballpark of >700 DTR before CRT and SS are enhanced to the point where CRT could match DTR for item budget value. There are probably random gear selection tradeoffs that would change earlier, but you're still looking at DTR way beyond current item levels.

The math is a bit more complicated then people have been doing for weights

You don't even know what math 'people have been doing' for weights, so you should probably relax.

[Pavise]

Any stat weight that says X is valued at X is incorrect.
The value of each stat in relation to current DPS changes based on current values of other stats.

Basically, the more Det you have, the less it is worth as a % increase of your total DPS.

The math is a bit more complicated then people have been doing for weights.

The damage throughput provided by the stat doesn't differ much at all when stacking it to w/e your goal is. BUT the higher one stat is the interaction between it an other stats plays a key role so for example... The more DET you have the Higher Crit will be worth stat weight wise same goes for the reversal, what does need to occur is to find that balance around hit cap and maximising both stats.

[EasymodeX]

maybe a bit off-topic, but is there a chance you could let us know how the new determination info affects monk stat weights?

MNK:

WD 8.321
STR 1
DTR 0.329
CRT 0.163
SS 0.157

BRD:

WD 8.683
DEX 1.000
DTR 0.314
CRT 0.269
SS 0.126