The Monk Temple

[Rapiso]

Pretty sure you are, since you're in the minority here.

Yes im alone so im wrong ... genius !

Think about our optimal roatation now, and our optimal roation post 2.1.

Post 2.1 : spam BS-TrueStrike-X-DK-TS-X (X = SP or Demo)
Refresh dot when they fade, regardless of your rotation.

Acutally : Have to check all dot timer to know if you can use True strike, have to fill the full dk buff time with ID when refreshing.
Which mean you're constantly adapting your rotation depending of your dot timer, you can't use true strike when fracture or tod will fade, which mean you'll DK-TS / BS-TS, which mean you'll fill with ID if you refresh one dot, which means if you think it's easier than just move back to demolish, you're probably one of these monks actually using this rotation :

spam BS-TrueStrike-X-DK-TS-X (X = SP or Demo)
Refresh dot when they fade, regardless of your rotation.

Which mean you're a trash.

[Allyrion]

Acutally : Have to check all dot timer to know if you can use True strike, have to fill the full dk buff time with ID when refreshing.
Which mean you're constantly adapting your rotation depending of your dot timer, you can't use true strike when fracture or tod will fade, which mean you'll DK-TS / BS-TS, which mean you'll fill with ID if you refresh one dot

Except that's not actually complicated at all. You do not True Strike when you have to refresh dots. This is hardly an added complication.

Any fight you can stay on the boss enough to fill with ID is a fight you *should* be watching your TP.
Any fight where you should be watching TP, is a fight you shouldn't be using ID.
If you're keeping on a target enough to use ID and not running out of TP, something's wrong.

Post 2.1 : spam BS-TrueStrike-X-DK-TS-X (X = SP or Demo)
Refresh dot when they fade, regardless of your rotation.

Except, Demolish now has a bonus positional (which will cause some adaptation).
And now that Twin Snakes isn't so short, there's no excuse not to be trying to hit your positions every time. Leaving out True Strike because you have dots to refresh is a simplified rotation, not a harder one.
Filling in with ID isn't going to be more dynamic than demolish demanding a position every third cycle (so not in sync with Bootshine).

If you fill in with ID, 2.1 isn't going to be more complicated for you. It will be around the same.
But guess what? Now you don't have to use a trash ability that should never have been available to us in the first place.
Congratulations!
And now you can actually bring that challenge into your Twintania runs, since god knows you shouldn't be using ID on that fight.

[Kiokin]

Yes im alone so im wrong ... genius !

Think about our optimal roatation now, and our optimal roation post 2.1.

Post 2.1 : spam BS-TrueStrike-X-DK-TS-X (X = SP or Demo)
Refresh dot when they fade, regardless of your rotation.

Acutally : Have to check all dot timer to know if you can use True strike, have to fill the full dk buff time with ID when refreshing.
Which mean you're constantly adapting your rotation depending of your dot timer, you can't use true strike when fracture or tod will fade, which mean you'll DK-TS / BS-TS, which mean you'll fill with ID if you refresh one dot, which means if you think it's easier than just move back to demolish, you're probably one of these monks actually using this rotation :



Which mean you're a trash.

What are you even talking about? All you're doing is simplifying what you perceive to be the new rotation, while describing the current one in more words to make it seem more complex.

[Almalexia]

Straight-up GL buff with no downside?

I almost feel embarrassed for letting this happen.

[Rapiso]

I know there is a lot of hate on ID because it's really hard to use it effectively and because of TP, so a lot of monk just don't use it.
But our maximum DPS rotation include ID, you can't use it on twintania because of TP, and some long fight, but it's the only case you shouldn't.

Even without ID, I don't know why the hell you consider moving back to demolish is something harder than constantly have to focus on your different dot timer and adapt your roation to use true strike. It's something you have to constantly focus on if you want to predict your rotation.
Moving flank to rear is just one step, I never considered these movements as a challenge, the monk hard part always was the rotation.

I think a lot of monk already use the 2.1 optimal rotation, because they think it's optimal on the current patch. In that case, yes, the rotation don't change for them, and it will become "harder" because of demolish.

But god, I love monk because it has a really deep gameplay, keeping a perfect rotation is something really challenging. Which this patch, there is absolutely nothing to think about now, just a basic braindead rotation and refreshing dot. I sincerely think that monk will be the easiest class to play.

Edit: The sad part is that monk will be OP in 2.1. And with the BRD/BLM/SMN nerf, It will become even more sad when ppl will see that monk have by far the best efforts reward ratio.expect a wave of new monk and party composition with 2+ monk

[pandabearcat]

Why would your maximum dps rotation include ID, if you can get higher than ID damage with your "dps" half of your 6 hit rotation, for at least 25% less TP?

BS does 150*1.5, ridiculously high 225 potency, at 60 TP.
True does 190, can crit, and only costs 50 TP
Snap still does 180, can crit, and costs 50 TP.

ID is 180, lower than all of them, and costs 80 TP.

And you need the other half of your rotation to keep up buffs.

At what point is ID ever useful now?

Also, what did monk do to require such buffs?

They were already the top TP user, now they're going to be miles ahead of everyone else.

I'm talking 20% more damage if not more.

[Rapiso]

Why would your maximum dps rotation include ID

I wasnt talking post 2.1

They were already the top TP user, now they're going to be miles ahead of everyone else.

I'm talking 20% more damage if not more.

And effortless

[Allyrion]

Even without ID, I don't know why the hell you consider moving back to demolish is something harder than constantly have to focus on your different dot timer and adapt your roation to use true strike.

Because I'm going to constantly monitor my dots anyway. Maybe that's just me but I like to be aware of everything that's going on, which includes keeping track of dots and buffs regardless if they're going to drop or not.

In that sense, I'm going to monitor the dots pre-2.1 and post 2.1.
The only difference is that pre-2.1 when the timer for ToD or Fracture is <6 seconds, I don't True Strike. I end up staying in place and using Twin Snakes which actually made my life easier.
Without ID, it's not that much to adapt cause you only need to know if you can get from one Raptor stance to the next without the dots dropping. And again, that might just be because I'm always keeping track of the dots anyway. Hell, I even monitor and sync GL3 with my internal timer even though there's usually no fear of it dropping.

Maybe I've played other MMO's too long because I'm little sick of priority systems. It's actually refreshing to have a straight rotation.
I think it takes a different type of concentration to keep following a set pattern, keep moving for the positions and keep track of all the things you have going on.
Don't think it's necessarily easier.
Though I guess post 2.1, you can get away with not keeping track as much but I personally will.

[NoctisUmbra]

Rapiso is both right and wrong depending on how you look at it.

The changes above will make playing MNK at a standard/expected level more complex than it is now. The reason is as it is now you can basically tell a new MNK to stay on flank and spam the basic flank combo worrying only about SP, HF, Demo and ToD while managing 2 buffs and they will be playing at near optimal sustained DPS. However, the standard in 2.1 with Bootshine and True Strike being so explicitly worthwhile and Demolish being favored from the rear, the standard will involve effective strafing and managing more skills.

On the flip side, the changes also make Impulse Drive pretty much unnecessary, and likely not ever worthwhile. Any MNK pushing the limits of DPS as of now will make use of Fracture and Impulse Drive when the situation calls for it. With proper Impulse Drive use, MNK can put out a great deal of burst DPS at the cost of ridiculous TP drain. A worthwhile trade-off in some fights for some mechanics, such as Dreadnaughts in Turn 4 or Asclepius in Turn 5. This, simplifies the MNK endgame.

So basically, if you are a beginner/average MNK, you will have more work to do. If you are an adept at pushing the most juice you could get from MNK, you will have less work to do. Overall, there will be more consistency in how MNK rotations look from player to player as they made certain choices much more obvious.

[Kuroyasha]

Edit: The sad part is that monk will be OP in 2.1. And with the BRD/BLM/SMN nerf, It will become even more sad when ppl will see that monk have by far the best efforts reward ratio.expect a wave of new monk and party composition with 2+ monk

LB fills slower with people of the same class/job in the party after patch. Not sure if having 2+ mnks could justify not having the LB on time/when you're usually supposed to have it for a fight you're not overgeared on. They didn't say how much slower for each duplicate class the gauge would fill, but they're trying to promote diversity within a party so I assume it would be somewhat significant enough to promote having different classes in a party.