A plea to reconsider Inner Beast changes

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Foresight - Absorbs 5% damage done as HP, (10% from trait)

Bloodbath - 30% of damage turns into HP (60% trait)

Storms Path - 100TP, heals for 125% and stacks 3x to max HP (has a immunity after stacked)

Thrill of Battle - Raises Max HP by 30%

Vengeance - 100 Potency, adds a debuff to weaken mobs damage by 30%

Butcher's Block - Added Effect: Breaks Bones reducing enemy damage by 15%

Storm's Eye - Now lasts 26 seconds

Holmgang - All damage is absorbed as HP for 5 seconds, 270 second CD

Mercy Stroke - Off GCD, usable whenever, free 150 Potency attack (adds a HoT of 10%HP every tick, 4 ticks :trait)

Steel Cyclone - 250 Potency + Silence

Wrath Stacks - 6% healing each stack (it should be a tradeoff, not freeskilla)

Inner Beast - Heals for 500% of damage done at 10% or lower HP, heals for 150% of damage done at max HP(raises max HP once)




These fixes would keep us a self-healing tank, that uses debuffs and self healing for its mitigation, no just static reduced damage, thus keeping the tanks unique.

[Churchill]

Should have had Shiyo write it so I could just skip from the get-go.

Class functions the same, only difference being that IB's usage is almost always going to be useful and your healers/you won't need to tip-toe around who is going to waste their MP/ability as you overheal a big hit. Titan doesn't hit hard enough to require IB anyway unless your healers are just terrible in which case IB is great because god knows you aren't getting that pre-cast heal or Adloq. As much as I'd love to balance a class around terrible players, somehow I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage when I'm not around them and if I was I know I'd certainly be at a disadvantage to my group if my only form of mitigation was a self-heal I couldn't even effectively use outside of requiring that everyone else I played with was awful.

Now, it doesn't matter if someone is pre-curing me because if I know the fight, know what I'm doing, know what buffs I have, I can mitigate when necessary or keep my Wrath/DPS for something else in the future.

[Dlewis1986]

lol what I don't understand is why they just didn't use infuriate as a mit mech since you'll be able to run it every sixty seconds anyway which is a decent cast time. Also if they were to make unchained act as blood bath that gave you maybe 75 percent of health from all damage dealt for it's lasting time I could see war keeping it's identity. Also I always wondered why steel cyclone didn't just cast fracture so it would be be a good ability to use with bb venge then sc which would make for decent aoe healing and mob threat.

[Kitru]

These fixes would keep us a self-healing tank, that uses debuffs and self healing for its mitigation, no just static reduced damage, thus keeping the tanks unique.

First off, some of those changes would be horribly broken (BB reducing damage by 15% is just *insane*, not to mention that it would just turn WAR into OT material because you're reducing the damage the boss deals rather than reducing the damage you take) while all of those self healing changes would be effectively worthless because, once again, you're having them scale with either damage or max hp, not incoming damage. Your doubling of Wrath stack values would just make using Unchained, Inner Beast, and Steel Cyclone even *less* attractive to use since you're doubling the opportunity cost without really making their effects strong enough to justify the new higher cost. On top of this, you're giving WAR substantially better mean mitigation than PLD via this doubling but leaving the WAR CD suite effectively worthless since the closest you're getting to buffing it is "omg, more self heals!".

People need to realize that increasing the "damage into healing" numbers is not a viable solution. It either becomes laughably overpowered in 4 man content because it's based around 8 man content or laughably underpowered (like it is now) because it's based around 4 man content. For any kind of self-healing to matter, it must scale off of incoming damage rather than damage dealt or max hp.

They also need to realize that the WAR identity is *not* built around self-healing or high damage or whatever else, as people so often like to think it is. Its identity is built around Wrath stack generation and spending. If you want to claim otherwise, you're really just pulling it out of your ass and/or ignoring absolutely everything else about WAR that *isn't* self healing because you're blinded by Inner Beast's big flashy number. The WAR playstyle is *still* going to be preserved because you're *still* having to generate and spend Wrath stacks; the difference is that *now* you're not going to be penalized for spending those Wrath stacks while *also* having the other 2 Wrath consumers not be comparatively worthless gimmick abilities that you never want to use because you are a *tank* and they are marginal DPS increases that come at the cost of your mitigation.

[Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam]

Should have had Shiyo write it so I could just skip from the get-go.

Class functions the same, only difference being that IB's usage is almost always going to be useful and your healers/you won't need to tip-toe around who is going to waste their MP/ability as you overheal a big hit. Titan doesn't hit hard enough to require IB anyway unless your healers are just terrible in which case IB is great because god knows you aren't getting that pre-cast heal or Adloq. As much as I'd love to balance a class around terrible players, somehow I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage when I'm not around them and if I was I know I'd certainly be at a disadvantage to my group if my only form of mitigation was a self-heal I couldn't even effectively use outside of requiring that everyone else I played with was awful.

Now, it doesn't matter if someone is pre-curing me because if I know the fight, know what I'm doing, know what buffs I have, I can mitigate when necessary or keep my Wrath/DPS for something else in the future.

I was kinda hoping you'd chime in. It's true that in coil this is undeniably a buff. With stand alone usage it's more than likely gonna result in more mitigation than the old IB (even in crit/zerk cases), but it did lose some utility with Infuriate (2x buffed IB). The argument about not needing IB on Titan is kind of silly, you can sit there and soak up everything in coil the same way (including Twin if you're properly preshielding and running a virus rotation), that doesn't mean it's how you should be operating. I can't help but feel like your healers just aren't used to healing you on WAR if you constantly feel like you're tip-toeing around overhealing. Overhealing may become an issue tanking pre-split Cad (our SCH usually just DoTs until it starts to stack), but when you're dealing with a single healer post split it's never been something we've had to skirt around. ADS our SCH DoTs on tank swap and I hold wrath by the time I'm hitting 3 stacks and getting bombed. Turn 4 we split heals aside from aoe waves (where I'm not IBing anyway), overhealing is again not an issue. Twin does enough damage that a Cure 2, Physick and IB post-DS aren't going to overheal you either, especially when Infirmiry comes in to play.

[Exstal]

Foresight - Absorbs 5% damage done as HP, (10% from trait)

Bloodbath - 30% of damage turns into HP (60% trait)

Storms Path - 100TP, heals for 125% and stacks 3x to max HP (has a immunity after stacked)

Thrill of Battle - Raises Max HP by 30%

Vengeance - 100 Potency, adds a debuff to weaken mobs damage by 30%

Butcher's Block - Added Effect: Breaks Bones reducing enemy damage by 15%

Storm's Eye - Now lasts 26 seconds

Holmgang - All damage is absorbed as HP for 5 seconds, 270 second CD

Mercy Stroke - Off GCD, usable whenever, free 150 Potency attack (adds a HoT of 10%HP every tick, 4 ticks :trait)

Steel Cyclone - 250 Potency + Silence

Wrath Stacks - 6% healing each stack (it should be a tradeoff, not freeskilla)

Inner Beast - Heals for 500% of damage done at 10% or lower HP, heals for 150% of damage done at max HP(raises max HP once)

That's not broken at all.

edit: Kitru beat me to it

[Churchill]

I was kinda hoping you'd chime in. It's true that in coil this is undeniably a buff. With stand alone usage it's more than likely gonna result in more mitigation than the old IB (even in crit/zerk cases), but it did lose some utility with Infuriate (2x buffed IB).The argument about not needing IB on Titan is kind of silly, you can sit there and soak up everything in coil the same way (including Twin if you're properly preshielding and running a virus rotation), that doesn't mean it's how you should be operating. I can't help but feel like your healers just aren't used to healing you on WAR if you constantly feel like you're tip-toeing around overhealing. Overhealing may become an issue tanking pre-split Cad (our SCH usually just DoTs until it starts to stack), but when you're dealing with a single healer post split it's never been something we've had to skirt around. ADS our SCH DoTs on tank swap and I hold wrath by the time I'm hitting 3 stacks and getting bombed. Turn 4 we split heals aside from aoe waves (where I'm not IBing anyway), overhealing is again not an issue. Twin does enough damage that a Cure 2, Physick and IB post-DS aren't going to overheal you either, especially when Infirmiry comes in to play.

We did everything with me on Warrior while it was still hard, before I swapped to Paladin. There are definitely times in Coil where current IB isn't in danger of being wasted, but some of those situations have become so with time/gear or aren't very optimal situations for a Warrior to be tanking anyway. I've never denied that Warrior can do all of the content a Paladin can currently do, just that Warrior doesn't do it as proficiently. I've never claimed that Warrior doesn't do more damage (in fact, you know that I am #1 Earth Warrior critdpsgogo) but Warrior doesn't do more damage while also main tanking if you take into account the differences between the two classes. I can run full DPS/Sword Oath and still tank, I can't run full DPS/No Defiance and do DPS combos while still tanking on Warrior, at least not past WP/AK.

That's why I think one of the bigger changes may end up being the enmity buff to Defiance - whether or not it is only to account for permanent increased healing, or to actually account for the -loss of damage from Defiance, it may allow for some full DPS/No Defiance toggle situations where before you would get handled. Add in Vengeance and IB shielding, you have the ability to get some of the CD rotation Paladin has while also doing more damage.

In full tank gear w/tank stances up, Warrior does more damage anyway as long as they can manage uptime on their DPS rotation and not lose hate. If you can survive and your healers can take the extra burden then obviously Warrior is going to be better for anything you don't need massive CD rotations to beat, but I don't see it as so much better that every group in the game will want to take a Warrior because even when Warrior was overpowered, plenty of bads still did content with only Paladins. (In 1.0)

[Paikis]

Warrior does more damage anyway

Are you trying to give Kitru a fit? You can't say things like that around here!

I agree with this 100% I think IB is okay as is and can be really usefull if you need that extra heal in certain situations. Steel Cyclone is quite useless atm so having that 6 second 20% damage reduction buff added to the steel cyclone ability instead of inner beast would actually give wars a reason to use the best looking ability we have and benifit from it.

Agreed.

[Robinthehood]

Overall, I'm happy with most changes in 2.1 but IB is currently just fine the way it is. Just give the 20% DR to Steel Cyclone instead (or give back the 1.0 version) and it'll fix a lot of the issues raised here.

I agree with this 100% I think IB is okay as is and can be really usefull if you need that extra heal in certain situations. Steel Cyclone is quite useless atm so having that 6 second 20% damage reduction buff added to the steel cyclone ability instead of inner beast would actually give wars a reason to use the best looking ability we have and benifit from it.

[Churchill]

Are you trying to give Kitru a fit? You can't say things like that around here!



Agreed.

Heavily mind the caveats I listed.