A plea to reconsider Inner Beast changes

[Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam]

stuff.

Against my better judgment I went back and read through the post in Kitru's sig. Absolutely no discussion or math on the subject of IB and its impact on healing (only that not using it "on CD" is a DPS loss, which is obviously indisputable). Either it is buried away somewhere in a 90 page thread filled with absolute garbage or it's elsewhere. Regardless of how it even functions now, 2.1 is shifting the healing potency to defiance itself, so there will be absolutely no trade off for expending your wrath on IB whether its for a 900 potency heal or 300 potency + DR. Whichever train of thought you follow you can go back to playing WAR as intended.

[Leiron]

Against my better judgment I went back and read through the post in Kitru's sig. Absolutely no discussion or math on the subject of IB and its impact on healing (only that not using it "on CD" is a DPS loss, which is obviously indisputable). Either it is buried away somewhere in a 90 page thread filled with absolute garbage or it's elsewhere. Regardless of how it even functions now, 2.1 is shifting the healing potency to defiance itself, so there will be absolutely no trade off for expending your wrath on IB whether its for a 900 potency heal or 300 potency + DR. Whichever train of thought you follow you can go back to playing WAR as intended.

Except that it makes no sense for there to be a cost for spending Wrath.
Your job is to be a TANK.
Utilizing Wrath, which takes away from tanking capability to take hits, is BAD design given that there is no proper reward.
You get a single instant helal and that is it.
Just because you mitigated the first mountain buster, doesn't mean you're stopping the next major hits.
Or on ADS where you have more than 3 stacks and you get repelling cannoned, then vacuum waved/ballasted all at once is brutal.

[Grembo]

Inner Beast was only fun to see how big of a crit you could get with it and letting rip without infuriate up always felt dumb to me.

About Titan's Mountain Buster, ToB and Second Wind was always enough to get me through this, if I held onto my wrath the healers could do their job from there fine.

Sure if you're overgeared for content then it was a fun skill to use but on paper the changes to wrath, defiance and IB itself sound a lot more useful. Don't let those big pretty numbers deceive you into thinking the move was in any way useful.

[Ipkonfig]

New IB will be great. Paikis.. 460 vit = 7332 HP with Defiance up not 8k. And Symba posted screenshots with MORE STR than you have and not hitting any where near the numbers you claim to hit. I think the majority of WARs are more angry that they spent all that gil on ilevel 70 DPS jewelry and now it's going to be a waste, I mean it was a waste to begin with, but now even more!

[NoelNoel]

I agree with OP about IB. I'm really not happy with the changes brought to WAR to the point I'm wondering if my full hero set will ever be of any use to me again after the changes are brought... It seems we're becoming another damage mitigation tank, and generally the whole thing feels more simple. I doubt WAR was originally planned to be a tank as safe as PLD, but rather a sub tank, and I was fine with that. Never had any problem tanking coil... All the changes I was expecting are nowhere to be found, instead we're getting more aggro, when it's completely useless, we are already the best at generating aggro. All WAR needed was a dmg buff to steel cyclone and another defensive skill. I have so much fun with IB as it is, the nerf to it does feel like a loss of identity. The only change I like is Holmgang, that will be useful.
That said, I will need to wait and actually play the new WAR to know for sure, but considering I like it the way it is now, I'm very worried about the changes.

[Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam]

As I posted in the OP, I think 1500-3400 IB range is the most feasible amount you can work for (30 VIT, full i90 on left and 9 STR/10 VIT accessories). Dropping VIT allocations for STR could push it further, but you're not likely to be able to tank Twintania consistently by dropping your VIT so low (though it would be plenty for Titan and T1-4 and OTing Twin). The fact that STR potions were ever even brought up at all should show how silly this has gotten. Regardless of his exaggerated claims I noticed Paikis threw up a thread on reddit covering the subject of IB and potential lost healing (with genuine IB numbers, lol) here, if anyone wishes to read it. I wish I had gone ahead and made some in depth posts on the subject, since with 2.1 just around the corner it is kind of irrelevant, but oh well. There is some merit to holding on to your stacks (and it's easy to see where the thought stems from) but being able to differentiate when you should and shouldn't expend your stacks is key to being a good WAR. It's unfortunate a large portion of the playerbase were unable to do this (or just blindly believed the misconception they heard) and our class is being simplified for it, but I don't think anyone will be too shaken given it's a substantial buff for us in the end.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Foresight - Absorbs 5% damage done as HP, (10% from trait)

Bloodbath - 30% of damage turns into HP (60% trait)

Storms Path - 100TP, heals for 125% and stacks 3x to max HP (has a immunity after stacked)

Thrill of Battle - Raises Max HP by 30%

Vengeance - 100 Potency, adds a debuff to weaken mobs damage by 30%

Butcher's Block - Added Effect: Breaks Bones reducing enemy damage by 15%

Storm's Eye - Now lasts 26 seconds

Holmgang - All damage is absorbed as HP for 5 seconds, 270 second CD

Mercy Stroke - Off GCD, usable whenever, free 150 Potency attack (adds a HoT of 10%HP every tick, 4 ticks :trait)

Steel Cyclone - 250 Potency + Silence

Wrath Stacks - 6% healing each stack (it should be a tradeoff, not freeskilla)

Inner Beast - Heals for 500% of damage done at 10% or lower HP, heals for 150% of damage done at max HP(raises max HP once)




These fixes would keep us a self-healing tank, that uses debuffs and self healing for its mitigation, no just static reduced damage, thus keeping the tanks unique.

[Kitru]

These fixes would keep us a self-healing tank, that uses debuffs and self healing for its mitigation, no just static reduced damage, thus keeping the tanks unique.

First off, some of those changes would be horribly broken (BB reducing damage by 15% is just *insane*, not to mention that it would just turn WAR into OT material because you're reducing the damage the boss deals rather than reducing the damage you take) while all of those self healing changes would be effectively worthless because, once again, you're having them scale with either damage or max hp, not incoming damage. Your doubling of Wrath stack values would just make using Unchained, Inner Beast, and Steel Cyclone even *less* attractive to use since you're doubling the opportunity cost without really making their effects strong enough to justify the new higher cost. On top of this, you're giving WAR substantially better mean mitigation than PLD via this doubling but leaving the WAR CD suite effectively worthless since the closest you're getting to buffing it is "omg, more self heals!".

People need to realize that increasing the "damage into healing" numbers is not a viable solution. It either becomes laughably overpowered in 4 man content because it's based around 8 man content or laughably underpowered (like it is now) because it's based around 4 man content. For any kind of self-healing to matter, it must scale off of incoming damage rather than damage dealt or max hp.

They also need to realize that the WAR identity is *not* built around self-healing or high damage or whatever else, as people so often like to think it is. Its identity is built around Wrath stack generation and spending. If you want to claim otherwise, you're really just pulling it out of your ass and/or ignoring absolutely everything else about WAR that *isn't* self healing because you're blinded by Inner Beast's big flashy number. The WAR playstyle is *still* going to be preserved because you're *still* having to generate and spend Wrath stacks; the difference is that *now* you're not going to be penalized for spending those Wrath stacks while *also* having the other 2 Wrath consumers not be comparatively worthless gimmick abilities that you never want to use because you are a *tank* and they are marginal DPS increases that come at the cost of your mitigation.

[Exstal]

Foresight - Absorbs 5% damage done as HP, (10% from trait)

Bloodbath - 30% of damage turns into HP (60% trait)

Storms Path - 100TP, heals for 125% and stacks 3x to max HP (has a immunity after stacked)

Thrill of Battle - Raises Max HP by 30%

Vengeance - 100 Potency, adds a debuff to weaken mobs damage by 30%

Butcher's Block - Added Effect: Breaks Bones reducing enemy damage by 15%

Storm's Eye - Now lasts 26 seconds

Holmgang - All damage is absorbed as HP for 5 seconds, 270 second CD

Mercy Stroke - Off GCD, usable whenever, free 150 Potency attack (adds a HoT of 10%HP every tick, 4 ticks :trait)

Steel Cyclone - 250 Potency + Silence

Wrath Stacks - 6% healing each stack (it should be a tradeoff, not freeskilla)

Inner Beast - Heals for 500% of damage done at 10% or lower HP, heals for 150% of damage done at max HP(raises max HP once)

That's not broken at all.

edit: Kitru beat me to it