Say No to auto-attack!

[Honz]

it wasnt about restrictions on spam, it was about choosing what skill to use wisely, cooldowns in no way simulates that.

Not spamming = choosing skills wisely

From a dev post
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post155331

Because of the restrictions of the stamina gauge, I can't execute actions with various special effects when I need to.
We are planning to remove the stamina gauge. Like before, TP and MP abilities will still be affected by recast times. There will also be cooldown times between actions.

apparently the developers also think we need cooldowns in place of lol stamina bars.

[Burn]

Seems like a troll thread to me, Auto attack isn't going to break the system. I think some people just don't realize just how bad the current battle system is for a modern MMO. Here is a hint, its going to take 3-4 patches to just bring this terrible combat system up to par from horrible to AVERAGE at best because the engine is still so horrible with its clunkiness.

[Physic]

Not spamming = choosing skills wisely

From a dev post
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post155331



apparently the developers also think we need cooldowns in place of lol stamina bars.

We know the developers decided to remove stamina, thats because stamina doesnt make sense with auto attack.

Stamina makes you choose skills wisely because all of your skills are using the same pool. with cooldowns its not a question of should i use this skill, or this skill based on the situation or my role, but rather i should use them both, because i its on cooldown anyhow.
before you choose to provoke, or attack based on what you think your hate level is. in cooldown system you should do both, there is no reason not to. Which is better is up to the player, but its a fundamentally different choice, which has different strategies and effects.
Stamina isnt about stopping spam, its about making you choose which skills are most important

[AnimaOnline]

So you like mashing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 or button,button,button,button,button,button,button,button,button,button, every single fight while madly trying to time in your skill so you dont get yet another random normal attack?
F that.

YES TO AUTO ATTACK

Having to mash one key isn't a valid reason to add in auto-attack. Yes, combat does need changing and you're right, you shouldn't have to simply repeat one attack, you should have to think about which attack you want to execute from a varied choice like in any other Final Fantasy game. The developers should be looking at ways to require the player to vary their attacks. Adding in auto-attack doesn't accomplish this.

[Peregrine]

Seems like a troll thread to me, Auto attack isn't going to break the system. I think some people just don't realize just how bad the current battle system is for a modern MMO. Here is a hint, its going to take 3-4 patches to just bring this terrible combat system up to par from horrible to AVERAGE at best because the engine is still so horrible with its clunkiness.

This is sadly the reality. To be a passable Final Fantasy battle engine, it has to look almost nothing like we see now. That's teh difficulty ahead, and how far we have to go still.

For the entire game, really, just as in the battle engine...we're like...30% of the way to acceptable. It's that bad.

We can't be thinking we're almost there. There are MILES to go before this game even breaks into 7/10 review scores.

Hotkeys would have worked if this was a streetfighter game or an action MMO.
This is a strategic MMO.

So you don't mash 111111111111.
I still mash
113131141678911
133131168911
11116789

Same repetitive patterns. You can tell what abilities are on what number just by analyzing that pattern above.

[STEAMSHEEP]

I can told you all that the AT ATK system idea used to solve the Lag problem....
Since the MT atk system made the delay in battle, specially Gl in BW...

[Honz]

We know the developers decided to remove stamina, thats because stamina doesnt make sense with auto attack.

Stamina makes you choose skills wisely because all of your skills are using the same pool. with cooldowns its not a question of should i use this skill, or this skill based on the situation or my role, but rather i should use them both, because i its on cooldown anyhow.
before you choose to provoke, or attack based on what you think your hate level is. in cooldown system you should do both, there is no reason not to. Which is better is up to the player, but its a fundamentally different choice, which has different strategies and effects.
Stamina isnt about stopping spam, its about making you choose which skills are most important

Let me explain how the current system works.

The Stamina Bar acts like a universal cool down on all abilities. You can only regen stamina by waiting, the pace at which stamina regens can be affected by the status effects of Haste or Slow. The reason why stamina acts as a universal cool down timer is because every single action during combat requires stamina with the exception of a few abilities, so when you don't have stamina you have to wait to for more stamina to perform that action.

In a leve party situation or typical SP grind party the hindrance of the stamina bar is not noticeable because the battles are short. Now in longer battles like NMs, the pace at which the stamina bar regens is much more noticeable especially for DoW classes because they rely on a 1,1,1,1, spam to gain TP.

When choosing to use skills 3 factors come into play, first is desired effect (what the skill actually does), next is TP/MP cost (both of which aren't a big factor but considered during longer battles), lastly is stamina cost. We also have individual cooldown timers for all abilities but how often do we take that into consideration? Almost never because stamina plays a much bigger role as a pseudo cooldown timer.

Obviously a good player will use his abilities as necessary and most of the time as effective counters. ie. Tank provokes or taunts when he has lost enmity on the target, only thing that should stop the tank from provoking is the ability's individual cooldown but with the current system stamina will hold you back. Most gladiators who have tanked the higher tier NMs will probably agree that because of provoke and taunts high stamina costs, stamina issues makes it hard for tanks to participate in powerful BRs. A gladiator without invigorate II and pikemanship will never be able to perform effectively in BRs. Since parties have been reduced to 8-man, even the tank must participate for a full BR and yes it does help 1k Riot blades will make enmity stick on you.

[Physic]

Let me explain how the current system works.

The Stamina Bar acts like a universal cool down on all abilities. You can only regen stamina by waiting, the pace at which stamina regens can be affected by the status effects of Haste or Slow. The reason why stamina acts as a universal cool down timer is because every single action during combat requires stamina with the exception of a few abilities, so when you don't have stamina you have to wait to for more stamina to perform that action.

In a leve party situation or typical SP grind party the hindrance of the stamina bar is not noticeable because the battles are short. Now in longer battles like NMs, the pace at which the stamina bar regens is much more noticeable especially for DoW classes because they rely on a 1,1,1,1, spam to gain TP.

When choosing to use skills 3 factors come into play, first is desired effect (what the skill actually does), next is TP/MP cost (both of which aren't a big factor but considered during longer battles), lastly is stamina cost. We also have individual cooldown timers for all abilities but how often do we take that into consideration? Almost never because stamina plays a much bigger role as a pseudo cooldown timer.

Obviously a good player will use his abilities as necessary and most of the time as effective counters. ie. Tank provokes or taunts when he has lost enmity on the target, only thing that should stop the tank from provoking is the ability's individual cooldown but with the current system stamina will hold you back. Most gladiators who have tanked the higher tier NMs will probably agree that because of provoke and taunts high stamina costs, stamina issues makes it hard for tanks to participate in powerful BRs. A gladiator without invigorate II and pikemanship will never be able to perform effectively in BRs. Since parties have been reduced to 8-man, even the tank must participate for a full BR and yes it does help 1k Riot blades will make enmity stick on you.

what should stop the tank from provoking, is that he did way too many regular attacks earlier, or popped a weaponskill. How well a tank cant tank and do other things with stamina is a measure of skill and tactics, in cooldown system, its a plan of a sequence of rotations ahead of time. its a totally different mechanic.

the reason it isnt a universal coold down is because you dont stop all actions, you can choose to chain together actions or you can space them out. also different skills have different values, a taunt is worth 2 attacks, which do you choose? cooldown system you dont choose between the two, you do both. Its intrinsicly different, whether you like it or not, dont think its the same things, or serves the same purpose, or is the same game mechanic.

the fact that you have to wait, doesnt make it like a cooldown.

[weeble]

the sad thing is that most people that are getting there votes to count are the lazy,the rmt, the duel botters, pl'ers, and people that need auto attack to get anything accomplished in a game. that is why it's already on it's way. now we gonna be stuck with it cause they rather see ffxi-2 then the game totally go crapbag.

there is no reason for auto attack, there isn't a good reason in this hole post let alone forum. they could of fixed things while keeping them, just like they could of fixed our very very first battle system instead of completly changing that too. how many people were lost in the wow ban? how many u think are here and voting(multiple times lol), is same reason drug dealers voted to keep weed illegal(and won) there is no real reason for auto attack except they screwed up the launch and now they gave power to screaming babies, they were on a good path at start if they stuck with it and fixed that instead.

[Drogyn]

Seven of Nine... cool.