So which is it Yoshi?

[ish007xx]

im drg and a mix of allagan and myth gear is best for me , Full allagan for me is only more skill speed -___- I DON'T WANT ALL THIS SKILL SPEED.

[Machazareel]

How would you feel if you worked every day, saved up your money, and then bought that nice new car you always wanted. Then someone walks up and complains about not having enough time to do that work and earn that money, so the dealer says "well.... ok, here you can have it anyway".

Except that's not really how it is. It's you doing the more demanding and better paying job and getting that car sooner, while the other guy has to save up over a longer period of time to get it.

[Giantbane]

Again, however they balanced it is IRRELEVANT to what is in the game RIGHT NOW. And that, is a dungeon that can have turns 1-4 cleared in DL gear, WAR or PLD makes no difference, they're both do-able.

I think you're missing the point entirely about what we're talking about here. We aren't talking about how difficult a dungeon should be, or class balance. We're talking about people getting gear thats just as good, and in some cases better than binding coils, for running wanderer's palace.

Oh, I get what you're saying, but you seem to complete misunderstand me.

The situation with coil RIGHT NOW is because they screwed up.
They are NOT going to fix it RIGHT NOW because they are more afraid of making other customers unhappy than they are of making you unhappy because coil as it exists RIGHT NOW is too easy.

However, because they originally intended things to be more difficult, then what you are asking for will likely happen for future end game content releases. However, you have to WAIT FOR IT.

As far as running WP or AK for myth level gear, the balance that they are intending is that they get the same stuff as hard core players. Just that the hard core players get it much faster. You asked what his intention was. It seems pretty clear to me.

[Freakiie]

And you really don't think that there's something off when you run the easiest endgame content and it allows you to obtain the best gear?

[Thunderz]

And you really don't think that there's something off when you run the easiest endgame content and it allows you to obtain the best gear?

QFT

this so much

[NekoHina]

Wasn't the point to reward all player regardless of playing style? If you are hardcore, you can simply tackle the challenge and get the gear faster.

[Giantbane]

And you really don't think that there's something off when you run the easiest endgame content and it allows you to obtain the best gear?

I'm not debating whether it's good or not. Sephirah was claiming Yoshi was contradicting himself. I do not believe he was. You do coil for the challenge and to get end game gear faster. Casuals that aren't in coil still get access to end game gear via myth tokens, it's just going to take them a while to get a full set (let alone for multiple classes). That's the design as it exists.

Well and he's also got off on a tangent that end game gear doesn't even matter because you can clear coil in DF, but that's something else entirely.

EDIT: and i'm post capped. Too much discussion of new WAR abilities. Anyhow to reply below:

This would be true if Allagan gear was better than myth gear, but in many cases it is not. Therefore, no matter how hardcore you are, if you can cap 300 myth tomes you progress at the exact same rate as everyone else and this can easily be done in one of the easiest end-game dungeons, Wanderer's Palace.

Additionally, going into coil and killing bosses does not guarantee gear. You can go weeks without ever seeing an upgrade.

Hardcore players don't get myth gear any faster than casual players. As long as you cap 300 myth tomes per week, you get myth gear just as fast as the most hardcore players in the game. In regards to hardcore players getting Allagan gear, see above.

BiS is usually a mix between the two sets. So optimally you want some of each.

Even if you go weeks before seeing an upgrade, that doesn't seem like a problem. It takes 2-3 weeks before you can buy any piece of myth gear. And if you have access to both myth and allagan gear you're going to be getting a full set of ilvl 90 stuff faster than someone just capping myth by running WP 10x a week.

What about when BiS for a given class is an Allagan piece. Doesn't that mean the casual player running WP NEVER gets that *best* piece of gear? Does that make you feel better about the whole thing?

[zdub303]

Wasn't the point to reward all player regardless of playing style? If you are hardcore, you can simply tackle the challenge and get the gear faster.

This would be true if Allagan gear was better than myth gear, but in many cases it is not. Therefore, no matter how hardcore you are, if you can cap 300 myth tomes you progress at the exact same rate as everyone else and this can easily be done in one of the easiest end-game dungeons, Wanderer's Palace.

Additionally, going into coil and killing bosses does not guarantee gear. You can go weeks without ever seeing an upgrade.

As far as running WP or AK for myth level gear, the balance that they are intending is that they get the same stuff as hard core players. Just that the hard core players get it much faster. You asked what his intention was. It seems pretty clear to me.

Hardcore players don't get myth gear any faster than casual players. As long as you cap 300 myth tomes per week, you get myth gear just as fast as the most hardcore players in the game. In regards to hardcore players getting Allagan gear, see above.

[Welsper59]

The problem is, (most)people will always take the easy way. If you can be equally rewarded for putting in less effort, then why waste your time or efforts on the more difficult route? And running coils is not mutually exclusive from earning myth gear, if you're clearing coils, you're earning myth gear at the same time.

You should be rewarded for your efforts, not your lack of them.

I guess it really is wrong of them to think people want to do something challenging for the sake of it challenging. There must always be a better reward for it (different is not enough). Gamers are in such a sad state. For the "fun" of something in a video game isn't enough, it must also provide actual reward that meets a random individuals satisfaction... haaa... I feel like I'm violating something serious for doing something because I want to, not because I feel I need to.

[Freakiie]

I guess it really is wrong of them to think people want to do something challenging for the sake of it challenging. There must always be a better reward for it (different is not enough). Gamers are in such a sad state. For the "fun" of something in a video game isn't enough, it must also provide actual reward that meets a random individuals satisfaction... haaa... I feel like I'm violating something serious for doing something because I want to, not because I feel I need to.

And wanting the best gear ingame, without actually putting in any real effort (Because time spent was irrelevant right?) and not even needing it one bit because you don't do the instance where it might actually matter is not a sad state? Come on please.

Is it really such a strange concept that the biggest challenge should net the biggest rewards?