So which is it Yoshi?

[Bizniztyme]

I mean, I'm all for having something to show for the work in certain regards, but I also understand where Yoshi-P is coming from when he says he doesn't want that huge player gap. It seems, to me, as though he wants to bring the FFXIV community of players up together as a whole as opposed to having a huge rift between the two types of players. It's his own sort of "No players left behind" sort of deal, I'd wager.

I dunno, though, maybe I'm just odd. I kinda feel like people want to loom things over other people's heads just to say "I have this and you don't. Suck it." or "If you played harder, you'd have all this." Kind of feels like something a big brother would do to a younger one.

Now this was insightful!!!

[Mazi]

Snip

I see where you are coming from and agree for the most part, I do think though that if you clear the hardest content you should get better stuff not WAY better but even like +1 or 2 more in the main stat ya know just a little bit to be proud of.

[Hyrist]

When your name, becomes it's own title for a thread, we've got a problem. *chuckle*


I was under the impression that someone who was going for BiS, would be both gathering Tomes, AND doing Algallean gear.

Seeming most people would not be able to pursue both, that would still validate Yoshi's statement about best gear not being easily accessible to all players, especially when considering the skill requirement for Coil. Meanwhile, those who play more casually, will take the path of least resistance, ignore the BiS items coming out of Coil, and stick to Relic(Myth Tome) gear.

Or, those with a dedicated static for Coil, but not enough time to grind out Myth, may stick purely to Coil gear. Only the most dedicated of players will be successful pursuing both at once. Donno why OP is trying to force-feed their own perspective as infallible logic into this.

But again, I'm not touching endgame until post 2.1. Limited availability in game, classes/subclasses to level. Haven't found a dedicated group I'd feel comfortable running such things with. Multiple characters to decide where I want to focus on. So many factors keeping me from approaching this endgame in earnest yet.

[Pooky]

Yeah its a bit weird that he is implying that a person Allagan gear = skilled hardcore while a person in AF+ gear = unskilled casual. I'm doing coil regularly. I'm really only interested in the accessories, cause my visible armour I want AF+. I'm not trying to extreme min/max and would rather have a full set of one type than random pieces here and there. You can't tell just by looking at a person's gear what their playstyle is.

I do wish vanity slots were considered more of an urgent issue by Square though. If we had vanity slots, I could go the extreme min/max route. Heck, I wanna do Coil in full Lightning gear xD.

[Giantbane]

Again, the myth gear is JUST as good as the Allagan gear, infact, "BiS" combinations require a combination of the 2, nobody is going to wear full allagan and nothing else. "Exclusive" in this case means nothing more than appearance...

I'm really worried you guys are making this game TOO casual friendly. I have no problems with casual players, and think they deserve to enjoy the game as much as anyone else, but there needs to be incentive for "end-game" or "hard-core" players.

There seem to be conflicting statements being made...

Hard core players get myth gear AND allagan gear, so they can fill out their slots in ilvl90 gear faster.

Casuals have to wait because they can only get myth so fast.

That was the difference he was implying.

The reason for no ilvl90 crafted gear right now probably has more to do with them not coming up with a method to limit the rate you could acquire it (in addition to other effects he mentioned).

[Sephirah]

Hard core players get myth gear AND allagan gear, so they can fill out their slots in ilvl90 gear faster.

Casuals have to wait because they can only get myth so fast.

That was the difference he was implying.

As I said in another thread about this, when turns 1-4 can be cleared in DL, and there is currently nothing harder than Twintania, the rate at which you gear up is irrelevant. So the "hard-core" players can get gear faster to help them clear... the exact same content that the casuals can.

[Giantbane]

As I said in another thread about this, when turns 1-4 can be cleared in DL, and there is currently nothing harder than Twintania, the rate at which you gear up is irrelevant. So the "hard-core" players can get gear faster to help them clear... the exact same content that the casuals can.

That was apparently a mistake. They didn't test PLD in coil, they designed coil around 2x WAR tanks. I think you'll be hard pressed to clear coil with 2 WAR tanks while your etire raid wears DL.

They're not going to make the current content harder (either by nerfing PLD or buffing coil), but moving forward, expect a harder end game.

[Sephirah]

That was apparently a mistake. They didn't test PLD in coil, they designed coil around 2x WAR tanks. I think you'll be hard pressed to clear coil with 2 WAR tanks while your etire raid wears DL.

They're not going to make the current content harder (either by nerfing PLD or buffing coil), but moving forward, expect a harder end game.

I highly doubt they didn't test pld in coils, they may have not tested 2 pld in coils assuming everyone would use a pld/war combo, but regardless, you can clear turns 1-4 in DL, pretty sure double WAR could do this too, I've just never tried it.

But even if what you said was correct, and they never tested PLD in coils, and it wasn't intended for groups in DL to clear turns 1-4, it is how it is now, and they have to make adjustments moving forward taking that into account, regardless of what their original intentions were.

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a casual player.

I don't understand this mentality. Just because we want some incentive for end-game raiding does not mean we are saying casuals aren't allowed to play the game and enjoy it.

Casuals view end-game "hard-core" content as something they are excluded from due to their erratic schedules, well us "hard-core" players feel like we're being excluded from a challenging progression.

How would you feel if you worked every day, saved up your money, and then bought that nice new car you always wanted. Then someone walks up and complains about not having enough time to do that work and earn that money, so the dealer says "well.... ok, here you can have it anyway".

Edit: more stupid limits

They already said PLD is uninentionally making some of the coil fights too easy. It's not like the PLD move set is complicated enough that they missed some super secret PLD strat that's giving PLD the edge. The only explination is that they did most of their balancing with WAR tanks and sort of glossed over making sure it was equally as difficult as the PLD.

So, yea. I bet devs mained WAR and balanced the dungeon around that. Then they did it a few times a PLD to make sure it was doable and called it a day without serious balance testing between the two classes.

Again, however they balanced it is IRRELEVANT to what is in the game RIGHT NOW. And that, is a dungeon that can have turns 1-4 cleared in DL gear, WAR or PLD makes no difference, they're both do-able.

I think you're missing the point entirely about what we're talking about here. We aren't talking about how difficult a dungeon should be, or class balance. We're talking about people getting gear thats just as good, and in some cases better than binding coils, for running wanderer's palace.

[Giantbane]

I highly doubt they didn't test pld in coils, they may have not tested 2 pld in coils assuming everyone would use a pld/war combo, but regardless, you can clear turns 1-4 in DL, pretty sure double WAR could do this too, I've just never tried it.

But even if what you said was correct, and they never tested PLD in coils, and it wasn't intended for groups in DL to clear turns 1-4, it is how it is now, and they have to make adjustments moving forward taking that into account, regardless of what their original intentions were.

They already said PLD is uninentionally making some of the coil fights too easy. It's not like the PLD move set is complicated enough that they missed some super secret PLD strat that's giving PLD the edge. The only explination is that they did most of their balancing with WAR tanks and sort of glossed over making sure it was equally as difficult as the PLD.

So, yea. I bet devs mained WAR and balanced the dungeon around that. Then they did it a few times a PLD to make sure it was doable and called it a day without serious balance testing between the two classes.

And they also said they weren't going to nerf PLD or buff WAR and coil to make it as difficult as intended. It is more important to them that they don't hurt groups already clearing coil, than to provide the originally intended difficulty. So we just get to live with an easier coil 1-5.

With that said, since their original intent seems to have been to create content that was more difficult than it actually turned out, I expect any new end game content they introduce (coil 5-10) will be more difficult such that you need better gear before you clear it.

[Machazareel]

How would you feel if you worked every day, saved up your money, and then bought that nice new car you always wanted. Then someone walks up and complains about not having enough time to do that work and earn that money, so the dealer says "well.... ok, here you can have it anyway".

Except that's not really how it is. It's you doing the more demanding and better paying job and getting that car sooner, while the other guy has to save up over a longer period of time to get it.