So which is it Yoshi?

[Amberyl]

Yeah, how shallow... wait, we are playing a freacking VIDEOGAME. Stop being so entitled.

He's right, tho. If you're here because of the carrot, not the view during the trip, you're kinda missing the point.

Take Dissidia 012, for example, which has probably the most similar game structure to XIV in a game from SE that I can think of. I have 500 hours odd sunk into Dissidia, and still play it regularly. Yet it took perhaps a fifth of that time or less to fully configure and gear the characters that I wanted to play. The rest was pure entertainment. Am I a fool for spending 400 hours doing the same thing without material incentive as a reward for the time spent? Of course not. It's called 'having fun.'

If you're logging in each day purely to raise a number on your character sheet, surely you'd be better off getting a second job?

[Ri_ri]

Yeah, how shallow... wait, we are playing a freacking VIDEOGAME. Stop being so entitled.

Meh, reading again, my post came off as extrmely judging and arrogant. I guess I'm getting bitter after dealing with all the "gear up freaks" in those years.

Anyway, it's what Amberyl said.

I think you lost sight of what gear means when your only motivation to play is to get it.

[zdub303]

Are you a child needing candy to play ball?

Oh wait... children don't do that. Needing "material" incentive to play a game... pfft.

MMORPG players these days

Serious question here... have you been in coil? Hard to tell, but im gonna guess not.

I'm all for the journey, and for playing to have fun. I participate in a lot of activities in MMOs and really enjoy myself. However, i'm not going to adhere to a somewhat strict 3-4 night per week raid schedule with FC mates to go kill the same bosses over and over for absolutely no reason or reward. All that would be doing is wasting my time.

Killing a raid boss for the first time is a reward in itself, 100% agree. Clearing a raid boss 25+ times purely for the 'reward of having done it'? Nope sorry, there are other things I would rather do with my time. You can talk all you want with that smug sense of self-entitlement, but MMOs in general are about watching as your character and your guild grows and you take on bigger and badder challenges. The progression is the appeal to most gamers, take that away and really... whats left? A subpar single player game that has other people running around in it.

[Giantbane]

Serious question here... have you been in coil? Hard to tell, but im gonna guess not.

I'm all for the journey, and for playing to have fun. I participate in a lot of activities in MMOs and really enjoy myself. However, i'm not going to adhere to a somewhat strict 3-4 night per week raid schedule with FC mates to go kill the same bosses over and over for absolutely no reason or reward. All that would be doing is wasting my time.

Killing a raid boss for the first time is a reward in itself, 100% agree. Clearing a raid boss 25+ times purely for the 'reward of having done it'? Nope sorry, there are other things I would rather do with my time. You can talk all you want with that smug sense of self-entitlement, but MMOs in general are about watching as your character and your guild grows and you take on bigger and badder challenges. The progression is the appeal to most gamers, take that away and really... whats left? A subpar single player game that has other people running around in it.

I dunno, maybe this game doesn't require a strict 3-4 day raid schedule since you can split your gearing up between raiding and casual content if you so choose?

Or once you're geared out, get gear for an alt class. You definitely don't have enough myth to go around to be gearing multiple classes in any sort of semi-reasonable time frame. If you don't want to do that, help your FC mates get gear for their main or alt classes. If neither of that appeals to you then perhaps you shouldn't be in an FC with a strict 3-4 day raid schedule since you're just gonna race to the end and get bored.

[Aegis]

Am I wrong in expecting people to want to do the hardest content in the game because it is the hardest content in the game.

Can we not have a dungeon/raid that is actually enjoyable in its own right rather than a task to get through to get gear? Why not let crafted gear be equivalent to dungeon gear? That way people could more easily get into the endgame dungeons which they would be doing for fun.

[Sephirah]

@Amberyl

I completely agree, it's about the journey, but only when the game is designed that way. XI was a journey, an amazing one, just so you all know, I never even reached sky in that. I didn't care, it was an amazing and long journey, and that exclusive content was something to aim for, even if you never reach it. I did not feel excluded, I knew that if I wanted to do that kind of content it would take a lot of dedication and motivation.

Unfortunately XIV does not follow this model, and is instead being what is becoming more and more apparent heavily influence by WoW, where the end-game IS all that matters. You have to REALLY try to not lvl up in this game, anyone who doesn't have at least 1 50 by now, either JUST started, or logs in for maybe 1 hour a week, or literally just logs in and uses this as the prettiest chat-room ever.

@Aegis

Nobody is saying they don't want to run something for the challenge, but as I mentioned above, this game was designed around the WoW formula, which is: run dungeon x until you have y amount of gear, then run dungeon z, rinse repeat. And that's what end-game in this new type of MMO is. The challenge is there the first time you beat it, once you beat it that challenge is gone, why would you run coils more than once if there is nothing to be gained from it?

Yoshi actually answered your "why can't we have crafted gear" directly, you can see it in the original post.

[Sunarie]

While I don't typically agree with you Sephirath, I kinda agree here. BiS currently takes a mix (if you're min/maxing, but that's what BiS is) of Allagan and Myth gear. If the idea is for only players who take on the more difficult content (in this case Coil) to have the BiS gear, then items should be tweaked so that the Allagan set itself is BiS and the Myth set is the in-between.

This would also leave some wiggle room to create iLvl 90 stuff through crafting but still not have it BiS. Though I'm not against crafting professions being "allowed" to craft BiS, automatically bound to them gear from items (non-sellable) that drop in a raid environment. While the BiS stuff for some does come down to bragging rights, it is also a bit of a personal reward for completing the most challenging content, and a sign of "winning the game" for some folks. (Note that the definition of "winning" an MMO is going to change from person to person and as more content is added.)