Nostalgia

[Aegis]

because nostalgia have the problem to make everything look good when in reality they were or are bad. It's not a problem of "stop liking what i don't like"

But good and bad are entirely subjective; you can't objectivelysay something was 'bad' or 'good' unless you are getting into some fairly extreme examples. Some people like grinds that take months if not years. Some people hate them. No amount of nostalgia can make you believe that you really enjoyed doing something when you actually really hated it at the time. If you hated doing something at the time you can later think 'In hindsight it wasn't that bad' but it will never make you think 'In hindsight I really enjoyed it'.

Because looking back fondly on past experiences or items is the very definition of nostalgia? That might be why?

The problem is that when you let that nostalgia blind you to valid criticisms of what you are fondly remembering that it becomes a bad thing.

That definition of Nostalgia is correct, but it is being used here to imply people's memories are distorted by it. If person A says 'I liked something' person B is wrong to say 'You didn't like it at all. That's just nostalgia'.

[Ri_ri]

Why are you so offended by this?

These are the ARR forums anyway, why you people keep bringing XI and how great it was? This is way more disrespectful than saying that your love for that game is misguided by nostalgia.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I'm not sure what your point is to my point?


I was just agreeing with the OP. Not everything everyone says good about FFXI or even FFXIV 1.0 is purely nostalgia. There were some really good PROS in XI (I don't have personal experience from XIV 1.0)

There were some really bad CONS in XI too. (again no personal exp. from 1.0)

I'm not sure what else to say honestly... so...?

Of course FFXI had his share of good points. But there are many thing people still want to see even if it's too archaic nowdays, or can't just work with this game.
I'll make you an example on a topic running rampart since 1.0: skillchains. Yes, they were a nice concept. Yes, they promote team coordination. Until CoP people still did. Then comed parsers, everyone realized they were shit and got abandoned. And still people in this forum praised that system like was the best system ever created, while it did more harm than good.
And furthermore, with this battle system they are impossible to replicate, and the game produrer already sayd a flat out NO when asked for individual limit breaks to link like shillchains, because it would become just another flashy skill at disposal.
This is the worst kind of nostalgia.

edit:

Aside from the wonky grind XI had... if I ever did find another game like XI would I play it? Nope.. because unless it's Final Fantasy I don't touch MMO's anymore. But that's just me personally with my (omg here is that magical word again...) personal opinion.

this have anything to do with every point i'm trying to make

[Yamimarik]

/snip

Again "your opinion" and actually mine too. I didn't like the skill chains just because I main-ed SMN in XI and SC's were very much useless to me most of the time. Again my opinion and yours. But to others? They might actually have enjoyed that system and THEY personally found it good. That's their opinion and how they felt. It's not nostalgia, now if I say "OMG I miss SC's so much! It was so much fun!" that's nostalgia cause I already stated I think the SC system was kinda bleh...

OPINION =/= NOSTALGIA

[yukikaze_yanagi]

But good and bad are entirely subjective;you can't objectivelysay something was 'bad' or 'good' unless you are getting into some fairly extreme examples. Some people like grinds that take months if not years. Some people hate them. No amount of nostalgia can make you believe that you really enjoyed doing something when you actually really hated it at the time. If you hated doing something at the time you can later think 'In hindsight it wasn't that bad' but it will never make you think 'In hindsight I really enjoyed it'..

in my case it's backward: i somehow liked party grind in FFXI. But that very same game made me hate it, for the atrocius waiting times to find a party when you weren't the favored class of that month.I liked PUP the day it come out with toau. I soloed ALL the way to 75 in an era when field of valor didn't exist nor campaign because the general consensus was PUP was broken and waas harmful having one in party.
No thanks. Never again i want to be that dependent to other's people just for EXP.
People like in that way ? that's cool. But don't play me the tune it was the best way to exp ever, because it wasn't

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Again "your opinion" and actually mine too. I didn't like the skill chains just because I main-ed SMN in XI and SC's were very much useless to me most of the time. Again my opinion and yours. But to others? They might actually have enjoyed that system and THEY personally found it good. That's their opinion and how they felt. It's not nostalgia, now if I say "OMG I miss SC's so much! It was so much fun!" that's nostalgia cause I already stated I think the SC system was kinda bleh...

OPINION =/= NOSTALGIA

Then again you missing my point. People can like whatever they want, but if with numbers in hand they found that system USELESS, what's the point to even ask it again ? You can like it, but nobody will ever use it. Neither the one who asked for it

[Yamimarik]

Then again you missing my point. People can like whatever they want, but if with numbers in hand they found that system USELESS, what's the point to even ask it again ? You can like it, but nobody will ever use it. Neither the one who asked for it

And again you're missing mine and the OP's point... again...

It's not about "OMG I support this idea because I support peoples opinions!" I do not support ideas I do not personally like.

But I respect them and don't throw around insults that actually have no place being there as an insult.

I'm done with this thread now.... GL OP!

[Aegis]

Then again you missing my point. People can like whatever they want, but if with numbers in hand they found that system USELESS, what's the point to even ask it again ? You can like it, but nobody will ever use it. Neither the one who asked for it

That's like saying you can't say people like dungeons more than FATEs because more people do FATEs than dungeons. People who like one way of getting exp will grit their teeth and do another if it's faster/more convenient. Good feedback on what type of content people prefer leads to useful info for devs to include in their plans (see for example the raising of exp in dungeons just announced).

Just because people dropped skillchains for tp-burns (also the fact that you were likely to get your blizz 3 blown back at you by Lolibri is somewhat of a factor) because they were faster xp/hour does not mean that everyone doing a tp-burn wouldn't have preferred to be doing a SC/MB party for the same exp/hour.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

That's like saying you can't say people like dungeons more than FATEs because more people do FATEs than dungeons.People who like one way of getting exp will grit their teeth and do another if it's faster/more convenient. Good feedback on what type of content people prefer leads to useful info for devs to include in their plans (see for example the raising of exp in dungeons just announced).

Just because people dropped skillchains for tp-burns (also the fact that you were likely to get your blizz 3 blown back at you by Lolibri is somewhat of a factor) because they were faster xp/hour does not mean that everyone doing a tp-burn wouldn't have preferred to be doing a SC/MB party for the same exp/hour.

Colibri weren't the only mobs to exp. If people really wanted to do skillchains, or they were so much valid, they could exp on something like marids or diremites. They didn't because SC was weak and colibris so much convenient.
Also, your example is not quite the same: a thing is boosting what is already in the game to make it work (i myself like way better dungeons over fates, and never spammed fates to level), another is asking to bring back a mechanic deemed as broken even in his game, almost impossible to adapt to this battle system and likely to end in the same way did in FFXI. People can like it, but it's a waste of money for SE implementing a system they already know will not be used and no nostalgia can make them think otherwise

[Aegis]

I think the Nostalgia word gets tossed around when people appear to generalize that FFXI is better than other games on the market because of things that weren't really true when you closely examined them. For instance, the community thread... it really does come off as a definitive "FFXI had the best community of any game".. when in reality, most (at least any I've played) have toxics and helpfuls in their communities. That experience will vary on the individual and shouldn't really be a generalized statement. When people say something like "FFXI didn't have the derogatory elitism that MMOs today have." .. that's not true, and that's probably nostalgia talking. Many people's experiences have shown that it did indeed have that, to a pretty good degree from the experiences I've read. A better way to word it would be to say that you were lucky you were part of LS/FC/group that didn't do that stuff.

It's similar to me looking back at Shadowbane (my first MMO) with fond memories.

Yes, I will agree that some people are taking their own experience and generalising it to everyone (on both sides, including you). But I will throw in my $0.02 and say that while their were elitist upper-tier endgame shells, they were, in my experience, drowned out by the JP player who helped our entire dunes party get their magicked skulls, the NA players who used to regularly join prommy shouts just to help players on their way through CoP, the guy who lent me a bronze bed for the mog house quest, the linkshell who helped me through my LBs... the list truly goes on. I think this kind of thing is what people refer to when they preach about the community.

Also, the elitism I experienced in XI upper-tier shells is no worse than you currently see in Mor Dhona shouts: "LFM Titan. Die and you will be kicked" sound familiar.

/I know, I know, damning with faint praise.

Colibri weren't the only mobs to exp. If people really wanted to do skillchains, or they were so much valid, they could exp on something like marids or diremites.

If exp were boosted by 100% for every step of a Skillchain/MB you could bet no-one would've done tp-burns. You can't base how much people enjoy a process on how many people are doing it when there is a competing system with better rewards.