Nostalgia

[Aegis]

Never said that, but I did say they need to take the time to view their options objectively and realize if and when they are in the minority. Defiantly declaring your opinion in a manner of which that lists it as sacrosanct, then hiding behind the all impenetrable veil of 'it's my opinion!' does not prevent it from being inherently rude, or unpopular to the silent majority.

Then by all means call them on it being rude, or unpopular (though you shouldn't refraid from giving your opinion just because you feel others won't agree with it) but don't say it's just nostalgia. I have no problem with someone criticizing my thoughts and opinions. The problem I have is with people assuming that I don't actually feel that way, it's just nostalgia clouding my judgment. It's very patronising. Also, I would be very cautious of claiming anything one way or another for a 'silent majority'.

Also...



I love Blue Mage, but how would we make that job work within the context of our current battle system?

Without derailing the thread too much ^^; I would say something along the lines of how Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar has been implemented. Where those jobs have three summon abilities that vary by which class/job you are on, BLU could have some Blue Magic abilities that vary by what you have absorbed.

Say for example you have the ability 'Lancet' (From FFX, I believe) and when you use it, your ability 'Blue Magic 1' will then correlate to an ability from the mob you are fighting. Use Lancet on another mob and it will fill your ability 'Blue Magic 2'. Once all your Blue Magic abilities are correlated with mob abilities, you would need to 'forget' an ability to free that slot up if you want to use a different spell.

Enemy abilities could have certain levels or tiers meaning they can only be set in one particular Blue Magic slot.

eg:

Blue Mage base class (Tamer maybe, or similar) ability list:
1: Whip Crack (yeah, my blue mages have whips). Single Target ability.
3: Lancet ( x% chance to absorb enemy ability for use with Blue Magic)
3: Blue Magic 1 (Can set Pollen, Bomb Toss, 100 Needles .... ). Combos with Whip Crack for enhanced potency
3: Amnesia 1(removes magic set Blue Magic 1)
5: Azure Affinity (Increases potency of next Blue Magic)
8: Eye Snap (Low damage ability with Blind)
10: Blue Magic 2 (Can set White Wind, Impish incantations, double Strike ....) Combos with Blue Magic 1
10: Amnesia 2
15: Azure Veil (Makes next Blue Magic AOE)
25: Blue Magic 3: (Can set 1000 Needles, Explosion, some kind of knock back move, Bad Breath)
25: Amnesia 3

etc etc, you could have traits to increase learning chance, stuff like that.

Nb the above is just something I came up with off the top of my head as an example, so don't criticise that it sucks because, well, I know.

[Velhart]

I love Blue Mage, but how would we make that job work within the context of our current battle system?

That is a very good question, it is very hard to implement a job like this based on how the game's system works. Blue Mage would obviously be a job of a certain new class, meaning it would only get five additional abilities added to the overall class. The fun behind Blue Mage is to obtain all the spells from enemies. Am I saying BLU wouldn't work? No, I am sure there is some clever approach you can take, but I am definitely not seeing it. You can't have one job using a giant table of abilities when everyone else only gets five. If a BLU does some how make it into the game, don't expect it to work like a classic BLU.

On a general note to this thread, if you have a nostalgic idea going on, its all good, just better bring in a good argument that it would in fact improve the game without hindering it's core aspect, which I see people do a lot. If I am nostalgic of anything I want to see in this game, it is jobs like Samurai, Dark Knight, and Corsair. Of course with their own unique FFXIV approach to them.

[Sixmp]

I loved FFXI for one reason and one reason only ... BST. The ability to solo level was just great. FFXIV ARR solo levelling is boring compared to the excitement of that.

I personally think MMO's should come with the ability to solo all content as well as the ability to do it in parties. That way people who prefer to solo things can complete everything.

InB4 but MMO = Parties. No MMO = World full of people to interact with.

[Kazamoto]

How far back does something have to be for one to be nostalgic about it? I mean, there are some people who have active accounts in both ffxi and ffxiv right now.

How can they be 'looking back with rose tinted glasses' if they are still playing it?

-Note: I played FFXI from US launch on a PS2 until just before SoA. (I was playing EvE at the time with some real life friends and I only allow myself 1 MMO at a time).
I have also played:
DDO
WoW
EvE
City of Heros
Warhammer Online
Rift
Guild Wars





Did FFXI have flaws?
Sure early game pacing was dreadfully slow.
The learning curve early on was massively punishing, and it was possible to lose a whole day's worth of progress.
The UI wasn't very friendly, and a menu driven MMO may not have been the best choice, but it definitely seemed like a FF game.
No party? No progrees. Make one small mistake on the last floor in a Promy? Sucks to be you, there goes 3 hours of work.
Were you a Ranger early on? Here's a nerf to make you pointless except monster hunting.
Monk early on? Here's a nerf to make you just another average dd until Salvage comes out.
Dragoon? I hope you like to sit LFG.

As for the community? That all depends on when and who.
There was always a fair amount of JP-Onry out there.
The NA crowd? Mostly good, over 10 years and many many linkshells, I can still say that.

Were there bad ones? Sure, most HNM ls had strict requirements, but end game was hard then, and you had to work for it.
Exp party? I can think of maybe a handful of time it fell apart over someones gear, but that was usually caused by the under geared player saying "It's just a subjob"

But, shout in town and a dozen people would offer you help, or at least advice.

Never, in 10 years of FFXI did I ever see a recruiting shout for an event that demanded a certain level of gear.
Never, in 10 years of FFXI did I have someone leave a party in an assault or Promy or anything because player x's gear wasn't good enough.

As for the arguments about skillchains doing less, that was true for single element skillchains, or wrong element skillchains sure. But, if you matched your elements and had a mage to magic burst? easy peasy.
In the days of ToAU, I used to run 'old school' parties on Trolls where we would have a skill chain and a double magic burst and kill trolls faster than colibri. But, it required skill and timing.

FFXI is not the game it was, Seekers has basically destroyed all old content by totally ignoring power creep on items. Even in the days of Abyssea, at least things were still balanced outside of abyssea, you just didnt have to grind for exp anymore.
I wouldnt want to go back now, its not the same. And that is not a nostalgic looking back, that is a current summery after seeing the game as it is.

I think there are many features from FFXI that SE could rip off directly for 14, but the combat system is not one of them.

There is a level of skill and dedication that FFXI required that while I miss it, I don't have the time for it, as now I have to worry about my Career, wife, and mortgage. All things I did not have when FFXI first came out.

But, I think FF14 would benefit from (in no particular order):

FFXI AH System.
Puppermaster class
Pankration.
Nyzul Isle
BCNM/KSNM/ZNM
Puppetmaster class
Moblin Maze Mongers
Gambling tables
Eco-Warrior


-
We are already getting, at some point:
Choco breeding
Moghouses
Gardening
Choco racing

[Aegis]

But, I think FF14 would benefit from *snip*

Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage
Blue mage

...and Beastmaster.

[Codek]

Are people really going around screaming "Nostalgia!" without any supporting statements behind it?

Generally, if I ever use the term then it will include all the things that were previously overlooked from the original post (thus why nostalgia is at play).

The way I see it:
My Con's match your Pro's = "Stop Liking what I don't like"
My Con's were not included with your Pro's = "Nostalgia"

[Aegis]

Are people really going around screaming "Nostalgia!" without any supporting statements behind it?

Generally, if I ever use the term then it will include all the things that were previously overlooked from the original post (thus why nostalgia is at play).

The way I see it:
My Con's match your Pro's = "Stop Liking what I don't like"
My Con's were not included with your Pro's = "Nostalgia"

Just taking posts from the thread which triggered my little campaign (names removed, I'm not calling anyone out, here)

TBH you remember a different FF XI community than many other people.

All of those things definitely happened in FF XI. My contention is that the reason you remember it differently is nostalgia.

Edit: and by "those things" I mean the mean attacks on other players, elitist tearing down their gear, assaulting a low-skill or new player for not knowing things, etc. etc.

First-love-syndrome.

And to all those supports him, I present you:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ostalgiaFilter
Nostalgia Goggles

You mean the self conceited, insular community that heavily discriminated against anyone that didn't have their same views? That still pine for a game model that it's own developers killed off 3 years ago?

It was special because of nostalgia, that's it. The greatest threat to FFXIV future is importing the hostile, selfish community that plagued FFXI.

Nostalgia.

ITT: Selective memory at its finest.

Surprising how people forgot about jobs being radically excluded from parties (like DRG) or all the stealing, drama and bullshit in sky or Dragons Aery.
FFXI was as toxic as FFXIV, you just have a big nostalgia.

Anyone know where I can buy these nostalgia goggles and deluded mind cap?

I haven't cropped any of these quotes (apart from removing a picture from one). People are literally dropping into a thread saying "you remember it wrong" and leaving that as their considered rebuttal.

[Codek]

Just taking posts from the thread which triggered my little campaign (names removed, I'm not calling anyone out, here)

I haven't cropped any of these quotes (apart from removing a picture from one). People are literally dropping into a thread saying "you remember it wrong" and leaving that as their considered rebuttal.

Seemed like most of those involved a discussion on MMO communities. I would imagine that would be on par with scientists discussing what elements are formed from supernova nucleosynthesis from two different exploding stars (thinking that they are the same). It's not pretty to say the least...

Everyone experiences a different community in MMO's so that's something I'm not even touching in terms of nostalgia.

[Kazamoto]

Totally off topic, but use the same mechanic they use for 'additional' skills for BLU skills, as they level up they can select more from a larger list of options?