Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[pandabearcat]

pandabearcat, another example about Wonderer's palace. For fast run everyone is looking for bards and blackmages because of good damage AoE. Noone looking for monks. You numbers and other maths are nice, but game shows us another information about AoE_class_popularity. And it is not only popularity- it is a REAL experience of players

Yes, my point wasn't that monks are popular or "the best" at AoE or anything.

Monks can certainly do wanderers, and testing with my FC, a "non" speed run only takes about 18-20 minutes anyway. Its not a big deal.

They can't really change it without fundamentally changing how TP works, completely nerfing bard songs (which ironically, is the only thing that makes them resemble a bard in any way), or again, making it so AoE massive pulls aren't possible.

The main problem with this so far is, and I don't know why this is, FF14 seems to be stuck in the vanilla WoW mindset. Everything has to be grindy, everything has to be super coordinated and hard.

I understand people "dislike" the supposed casualness of WoW nowadays, but developers seem to have learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING over the past decade of WoW's prominence.

While WoW itself has evolved to suit player demands.

One of these things is "AoE". Now, somewhere between Wrath and Cata, they decided that AoE was bad and should be nerfed and wanted even trash encounteres to be more "epic" and difficult, as evidenced by the cata's heroic dungeons. CC's needed to be handed out, targets needed to be focused down, etc.

About halfway through Cata, they realized players HATED that. They HATED long trash, they hated the slowness of progression, they hated it.

So they went back to massive, flashy, "cool" AoEs.

This is where FF14 should go towards. People enjoy the feeling of power they get when they burst down massive groups of enemies. They like mowing down creeps, and they like epic boss battles (one thing I think FF14 at least does well). They don't enjoy sludging through not really difficult but just massive HP pools of enemies one or few at a time. This has basically been a proven thing.

Another thing is that DPS do not like to worry about resources. It is one thing to have secondary resources (like soul shards) or fast regenning resources (like energy/focus), or actively conservable/burnable resources (such as arcane mage and our BLM now, hunters w/ focus, rogues with pooling energy, and demo locks w/ demonic power). Those are fun and add depth to the game.

When you're struggling with TP or MP just to do your rotation, something has to give. This isn't a skill cap involved, this is just tedious and frustrating to deal with.

Furthermore, I don't want to rag on the game too much but outside of THM, mp and tp are exactly the same thing and the most boring possible concept of a resource bar you can imagine. It is literally as painfully boring as you can get.

You might as well remove it all together, and just like, 5 minutes into a fight, just tell the player oops, you suddenly can't use any skills for 30 seconds or so.

So...poorly...designed.

tl;dr, Anyway rant over, TP is suck, monk AoE is suck (and dragoon, and bard) because of it, BLM are broken OP and the way the game SHOULD be, SMN mana is suck, AoE should be fun instead of tedious, people only bring bard to buff the BLM, etc, etc.

[Allyrion]

You are right. I think we all talking not about weakness of monks (not weakness), but we want developers make some changes: GS, Shoulder Tackle, to remove some skills out from rotation and so. To change some skills to make them realy balanse and not out from monk's main battle mechanics

If you KNOW the damage is there, then why talk about changing damage mechanics? We're not weak, right? Even with GL3 falling off, we can still top the parser. Even with a complicated rotation, we can still put out the numbers we need to.

Shoulder tackle is the only tweak you mention that could make sense if you already know monks aren't weak.
I'm fine with Shoulder tackle, but it can be tweaked.

I don't understand these monks saying that we need "quality of life" changes to damage mechanics, when we can perform. That just sounds like dumbing the class down.
I would like for 2s more to the Twin Snakes buff, so you don't need SS to add True Strike in. But that's adding even more abilities in our rotation.

Btw, my last Titan I parsed at 210 w/o LB3. Full darklight and relic+1. That's playing it safe, I ran from the bombs and didn't always stick to Titan.
I could be better, but that's already higher than I see people doing. My dummy dps is 250. It's not that bad.

EDIT:

About halfway through Cata, they realized players HATED that. They HATED long trash, they hated the slowness of progression, they hated it.

So they went back to massive, flashy, "cool" AoEs.

I liked the cata dungeons at launch. I actually stopped playing a little while after they nerfed it.

On your main points, I agree though. A renewable resource model is much. A secondary resource adds a lot of good dynamics. Not sure if monks needs that though since they've got a lot already - BLMs definitely do. AoE should be rotational. Even WoW only had a few classes where it wasn't one button. Bard aoe is a good example of a good aoe rotation minus the TP inefficency.
It'd be nice for monks to have a full aoe combo, and TP was less of a ticking clock.

[Onyxys]

Maybe we all will make another thread-petition where we'll explain our thoughts about main monk's problems (skills and buff problems), because this thread is gonna last forever. ???

[Allyrion]

Maybe we all will make another thread-petition where we'll explain our thoughts about main monk's problems (skills and buff problems), because this thread is gonna last forever. ???

I told you, if you want a dev response you should make one in the General Discussion. They're probably reading this, but they won't respond here. That's not to say any thread has a guaranteed response, it's just your best chance.

I'll fight you there too though!

[Onyxys]

I told you, if you want a dev response you should make one in the General Discussion. They're probably reading this, but they won't respond here. That's not to say any thread has a guaranteed response, it's just your best chance.

I'll fight you there too though!

I can create this thread, but I dont think that people will support it especially because of my persone. So... I dont know. I began to think, that players are dont care about monk and it "fixing" in some way. I have no hope about any success. Maybe it is a conspiracy of other classes and developers against monk

[Soukyuu]

The problem here is, that monk is not broken. The loss of GL3 is to balance out our damage when we do have GL3. About the only reason why people are not searching for monks is that there are too high of a chance to get one that has no idea what they are doing. If you are going with randoms, accept the fact they will seek a "safe" option, which usually means ranged DPS.

I simply can not agree with monk being gimped right now. Have you played 1.0? THAT was when monk was totally unloved. Only towards the end, with battle adjustments, did we get some love.

[Onyxys]

Everyone, please, look here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ssion-Feedback
This is the thread of blackMages. Do you see how people, who like this class are defending it in eyes of developers and trying to make Blackmage more stronger- they created thread, they LIKED it, they are trying to make BlackMage stronger, better. And this is one of the most powerfull class as we all know. Can you hear!!!!!!- people want to make realy powerfull class more stronger by fixing anbalanced skills and so on. So, I wonder- people, who like to play monk- WHY are you saying about @monk dont need a buff, no need to change this and this and this. Lets stay all the same@ Maybe all monk_players are just stupid? Why Blackmage_players are trying to make their lovely class stronger and monk_players dont want to do same efforts??????

Why???

[Allyrion]

Everyone, please, look here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ssion-Feedback
This is the thread of blackMages. Do you see how people, who like this class are defending it in eyes of developers and trying to make Blackmage more stronger- they created thread, they LIKED it, they are trying to make BlackMage stronger, better. And this is one of the most powerfull class as we all know. Can you hear!!!!!!- people want to make realy powerfull class more stronger by fixing anbalanced skills and so on. So, I wonder- people, who like to play monk- WHY are you saying about @monk dont need a buff, no need to change this and this and this. Lets stay all the same@ Maybe all monk_players are just stupid? Why Blackmage_players are trying to make their lovely class stronger and monk_players dont want to do same efforts??????

Why???

Firstly, their issue is different from us. They're not asking to be stronger or even complaining about battle mechanics. They are simply questioning the design that all their Jobs skills as BLM are very situational. BLM is a powerful class because Thaumaturge is. They don't get much for being a BLM unlike most other classes in relation to their job.
Secondly, they got a generic response that applies to ALL claasses/jobs.


Do you understand? Their developer response applies to us as well. It should be assumed that the developers expect us to read it as well.
For reference:

Thank you for your continued feedback on the usefulness of each ability. As you can imagine, we'll continue to make class and job adjustments on a patch by patch basis as necessary. However, at this point, we can't comment just yet on whether or not we'll make adjustments to abilities like Freeze or Apocatastasis for the upcoming PvP system as its not yet implemented.

This response is not just for BLM. It is for for all of us. They even said "as you can imagine". They promised nothing.

[Onyxys]

This answer meens nothing for monk and it give no answer the question "Why Blackmage_players are trying to make their lovely class stronger and monk_players dont want to do same efforts??????

Blackmage's skills have no any issues- players just ask to change skills to make them more usable. Most monk_players are stupid enought to ask something like this. VEry sad

[Teeko]

I don't understand how that answer means nothing to us. They replied saying they will make class adjustments in the future, which does apply to us. They even agreed that melee fight mechanics needs some adjustments in our favor.

Also if skills are going unused, I don't think the players are "stupid" for asking them to be worth something, especially since most of them don't even affect damage output. Having useless skills in your toolset is called "ability bloat" and it is something that negatively affects an MMO further down the line of the game's life cycle.