7 Ideas to Balance WAR

[Kitru]

I'm just a beginner in the finer points of a WAR (lvl, like, 40 or something unimpressive), but I have a decently geared PLD.

You may want to actually learn a lot more before you start saying anything, like perhaps reading any of the analysis that's been done concerning WARs and PLDs in comparison across every imaginable aspect of performance that can be quantified.

I'm not saying WAR wins ANY of those fights, but you can't make a blanket comparison between CDs only, because WAR has a weaker suite of CDs in exchange for a stronger set of Weaponskills.

Except that WAR doesn't actually have a stronger set of weapon skills. Maim and SE have to be used to make up for the fact that WAR suffers from a larger damage debuff in tank stance, not to mention the fact that PLD has a single high enmity combo that does everything for it. CoS is actually a lot *better* than Spirits Within because it doesn't depend upon being at max hp, not to mention that it's an AoE (also, CoS generates slightly more enmity than a single Overpower while being off the GCD and affecting a larger area and being easier to use) so I'm not even sure why you think that Spirits Within is somehow amazing.

It's been gone over numerous times: WAR does not have an appreciable offensive advantage over PLD. WAR has an *ever so slight* offensive advantage over PLD that is so small that it vanishes as soon as you get into a group while having *explicitly* atrocious utility and survivability compared to a PLD. Claiming that comparing CD suites is unfair because WAR gets fancier offensive toys just demonstrates how little you know about the subject.

[Hachiko]

I'm not even sure why you think that Spirits Within is somehow amazing.

Spirits Within IS amazing. If there is one thing the PLD weaponskill kit excels at it's utility. Spirits Within being a silence on a 30 second cooldown, shield Bash being a non-GCD stun, Rage of Halone reducing STR, and even Shield Swipe being a Pacify (of dubious value, admittedly) shows that the weaponskill set for PLD is objectively better.

WAR doesn't necessarily have to be at the same state before CD's even though you included RoH. They are allowed some degree of assymetry, and in contrast to RoH, WAR is increasing his damage with eye, which I think is fair enough for a divide to be made in that particular comparison between defensive and offensive strength given that when the two come together they both reap the benefits of the others debuff.

Not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. Of course they don't have to be the same and yes in some cases both will reap the benefit of the others' debuff, but they won't always, or even often. And the major issue that it comes down to is that the value of Storm's Eye debuff is much lower than the value of Rage of Halone debuff. Storm's Eye doesn't really make a WAR tank that much better, it just makes their self healing slightly more potent when they need it, while still maintaining single target enmity. In fact, you could attribute the damage difference between the tanks entirely to Storm's Eye.

But the issue is that when it comes to what matters - not dying - RoH is king. I agree they are allowed some degree of asymmetry, but I'm extremely sick of people saying WAR doesn't need more tools to reduce damage they take, or that giving them say Fists of Earth will suddenly make them imbalanced. And it is still over a 10% difference in damage taken even if WAR was to be given Fists of Earth, which is the point I was going to make.

[Kitru]

Spirits Within IS amazing. If there is one thing the PLD weaponskill kit excels at it's utility. Spirits Within being a silence on a 30 second cooldown, shield Bash being a non-GCD stun, Rage of Halone reducing STR, and even Shield Swipe being a Pacify (of dubious value, admittedly) shows that the weaponskill set for PLD is objectively better.

What I was trying to say (which I think got lost in the post) was that Spirits Within isn't amazing when compared to CoS. CoS is the objectively *better* weaponskill. The poster I quoted was stating that Spirits Within was substantially better than CoS, which is just horribly wrong.

Personally, I think that the non-damage weaponskill suites of the two tanks are as mismatched as many people seem to think it is. The problem is less that the WAR or PLD weaponskill suite is stronger or weaker than the other but rather that the PLD weaponskill suite is much more defensively oriented and, as such, much more useful in the long run, mainly because the offensive contributions of a tank are tiny in comparison to the output of the group as a whole. Reducing the damage that a tank takes (and the damage the group takes on some raid damage) is a much larger proportionate increase to effectiveness than simply increasing the damage that the tank deals: tanks take a *monumental* majority of the damage for a group but only deal a fraction of the damage. A 5% decrease in damage taken is going to do *way* more than a 10% increase in damage dealt. Hell, a 5% decrease in damage taken is going to do more than a 20-30% increase in damage dealt thanks to the ratios of DPS to tanks and DPS damage to tank damage.

For SE to honestly be equivalent to Halone, it needs to reduce resistance to *all* damage by 10%, or, at the very least, all physical damage. Halone provides a proportionate increase to the survivability of the entire group; SE just provides a proportionate increase to the smallest damage contributors in the group.

[Ehayte]

WAR does not have an appreciable offensive advantage over PLD.

Uhg..I'm just, I'm so tired of you. I was not talking about DPS, I was talking about tanking utility.

- Maim gets WARs up to 90% DMG (75%x1.2 = 90%) 10% higher than PLDs in Shield Oath, add in SE and you are relatively higher. So you need to use Maim OR SE to make up AND OVERCOME the larger (5% lol) dmg debuff.
- OP is GCD, it may cost a lot of TP, but even with conical targeting (which is NOT that difficult to manage) it has much more enmity utility because it doesn't take 15s to build all the enmity, and its not a 30s CD (RE: CoS).
- SW has a silence....and its a 300 potency attack (maybe slightly less) at the start of a fight to add an enmity cushion. And it has a silence. And a silence....I'm not sure why you think Circle of Scorn is somehow amazing.

You are the Toby to my Michael.

PS I'd like to state, as always, that I am a strong advocate of a WAR buff - I was just trying to say that I think things like IB that a WAR have are better from a mitigation/utility standpoint than what I feel like PLD has. PLD obviously has a better overall deal right now, but comparing WAR CDs to PLD CDs isn't 100% fair.