Turn 5 Twister Strategies Compendium

[Soukyuu]

That's why I proposed not moving at all. I wish I was at turn5 and it was open to test myself, but sometimes the seemingly silly ways lead to success.

[SonyaArin]

I don't have a video of it presently, but not moving at all was one of the first things we tried. You blow up. However as per the purpose of the thread, I'm going to add it to the list and let someone prove it with a video. Also, Ceol, I believe the difference between the way WoL's spot and Twister's spot is calculated is the reason you see the discrepancy. WoL has an animation at the start, therefore, the game is forced to take a snapshot of where you are. Then your only tasks is to move out of it and get one update yourself, and you're safe. With Twister, there is no visual effect to start. Despite the fact that it feels like it should snapshot where you started, it seems to snapshot only based on the usual self-timer, which could be somewhere midway in the cast, then you're STILL tasked with updating yourself and moving out of it.

I understand what Irial is suggesting, and it's because of the seeming difference in the way it's animated, and therefore the way it's updated, that running PRE cast actually seems to explode it even more often. What you're seeing in the second video is a loose attempt at trying to bro-science this very kind of thing of updating, and a lot of people are probably moving forward with this sort of strategy. At the end of the day though, if that's what people start to agree on, then all we've found is that there is no secret mechanic and that it is the same problem the entire rest of the game suffers.

[SonyaArin]

Also added Wind Resistance to the list, we've tried with some but no particular benchmark, HQ potion should put you near 300 hopefully so I'll set the req to 300.

[Bashkarthegreat]

try to stand still and spin your character

[Senzura]

As nice as the idea is, the combination of the "leadership role" the OP takes over the matter and the way the OP is written seems like this is more of an attempt to promote the groupthink that the problem is the game rather than the player, even more so evidenced by the fact the thread was created after the SE post. I think that the whole discussion would be much healthier if both the first, third, and forth post were removed. Especially the forth. It is riddled with strawmen and the comes off has just plain hostile to anyone who wants to suggest that maybe, just MAYBE we (more specifically the OP) are missing something.

[Sanca]

That's why I proposed not moving at all. I wish I was at turn5 and it was open to test myself, but sometimes the seemingly silly ways lead to success.

Do you really, I mean REALLY think hundreds of players that have poured dozens of hours into the encounter haven't tried not moving? Geez man think a little before you post.

[Ceol]

The issue with calling it "the same problem the entire rest of the game suffers" is that even with lag spikes, I can dodge Weight of the Land by moving before it. You can dodge pretty much anything by moving right before it happens. I think it would be weird for this to be the only fight in the entire game that you're expected to dodge with no AoE zone, no marker, and the server picks when to place the thing you're supposed to dodge randomly.

Just to make sure, let me confirm the prevailing theory. You're saying that, due to the game only updating every 300 ms, there are times when your position has not updated yet and so the server places you where Twister is supposed to detonate? Or is it due to lag spikes that the server places you where Twister is supposed to detonate? If it's the former, I really don't think SE would tune the fight so much that their update frequency — something unavoidable and built into the game — would cause you to die. If it's the latter, then why is it happening in every Twintania fight at any hour of the day, despite Turn 4 being the least-played instance in the entire game (by virtue of being the very end of end game) and different players have it happen to them each time?

I noticed that when you got hit by Twister, it was just the detonation. Twister didn't place a black circle underneath you that detonated half a second later, which is what you would think it would do if you were expected to "drop" Twister somewhere. When you all tried standing still to eat it, was it the exact same animation as when you were running? As in, no one had a black circle appear under them that then detonated? It was just detonation?

Things to look for:

* Is it always the same people who get targeted?
* Is it always the same people who get insta-killed?
* Is it always the same player on that position in the hate list that gets targeted?
* Is it always the same player on that position in the hate list that gets insta-killed?
* Have you tried killing the adds at the same time?
* Have you tried killing the adds in a specific order?
* If you notice, the adds are called "The Scourge of Meracydia." Meracydia is a continent to the south of Eorzea that is the source of a handful of goods. Have you tried using some of these goods in the fight?
- - * Dark Bass (made into Bass Ball)
- - * Aloe (made into Forest Miq'abob)
- - * Angelfish
* Is there a relation between the people targeted with the adds' "Liquid Hell" move and Twintania's twisters?
* Is there a relation between the people targeted with Twintania's "Conflagration" and its twisters?
* Is there a relation between the person at that level in the hate list (A through 8) for Conflagration and Twister? I.E. Does person at level 4 always get targeted?
* Have you tried running exactly away from Twintania?
* Have you tried running exactly towards Twintania?

Obviously some of these seem obvious, but it would be good to get video proof. That way, a group isn't going, "Yeah we tried running towards it! Duh!" when in reality they were mucking it up.

[Ceol]

(Sorry for the double post, but I felt this belonged in its own thing.)

There are three reasons why I think Twister isn't a simple "everyone run to avoid it!" mechanic:

1. It's insta-kill. There is no damage, and there is no marker; there is only an animation of your limp body being launched into the air and falling back down dead.
2. The explosion animation or the small black circle happen at the end of the cast normally a second or so after she has finished casting (due to server-client update frequency.) I believe this is because you are supposed to do something during her cast. Has there been any boss in this game whose dodge mechanic initiates at the end of its cast instead of its beginning?
3. If all you had to do was run to avoid Twister, it would make the fight extremely easy. I don't think SE would put a mechanic in like that. It's basically Titan's Weight of the Land without the circle on the ground. Do you really think the final boss in the game, currently the most difficult encounter, would have its second phase mechanic be "fan out every minute"? When there was a boss three turns ago that had a mechanic requiring you to pass around a debuff? And one that had you manage adds so the boss could eat them on the very first turn?

[SonyaArin]

-snip-

I may consider removing the fourth, but it's there for a reason. The prior threads did have a lot of discussion on AV, or 'I'm at so and so %', but it didn't help the discussion at all. I'm not saying it's a 100% deterrent, but it seems to be working so far.

Have you tried X, Y, or Z?
Maybe, maybe not. Give the strategy a title and give it a clear definition of 'how to try this'. Should everyone be doing it? Should only one person do it? Etc. Be detailed, I can always crop it down myself if I feel the need, and I will post it in the strategies section for people to try.

This isn't supposed to sound hostile, and if you think it does, I can reword it. I want people's thoughts, and when I don't yet have a video even when I say we've tried it, I don't want you to take my word for it.

This thread came specifically after SE's response for a very simple reason. They said it's not bugged. Therefore, the next step was to find what the answer is. Whether or not I think it's for one reason is entirely irrelevant, but being part of the discussion, I'm still allowed to talk about it.

[SonyaArin]

Place holder for text ...and whoops, didn't actually copy my text.

To summarize on Ceol's points:

Obviously some of these seem obvious, but it would be good to get video proof.

Yup! Again, if any particular video posted isn't convincing, I'm open to having it removed as an example, and if it isn't clear I'm asking for videos from other FCs too who are willing.

On your trio of thoughts above, #2 is the one that gets me thinking the most in agreement. For #3 though, I should clarify a few things, as 'Twister phase' isn't just Twister phase.

1) Tank still getting nuked with Death Sentence, no huge surprise.
2) Twisters on a timer.
3) Dreadknights come down (you can see one in the end of my video) also on a timer. When a knight comes down, Twintania will perma-stun a random person until that Knight dies. The add will walk towards that person and if they reach them, the person is insta-killed. Killing the add releases them.

Off-hand, the phase seems to be a simple 'dodge twisters while managing add space', because they can come off CD at the same time, so you can stumble a little if you're all trying to get near-ish (esp. melee + OT) the add while Twister is about to cast.

I'll try to get some videos that will help answer you set of questions above when Turn 5 comes up and see if there is some hidden correlations on more obscure things ('4 targets at random' actually being 'aggro targets 3-6' or something like that).