Let's Talk : GRAPHICS

[samfisher]

the game was released on september. as of now we still don't have the dx11 client. that kinda answers why we don't have two clients at launch date.
the min requirements have 32bit CPUs listed, the game is a 32bit application hence it cannot use more than 2GB of memory and so higher resolution textures. to double the current textures resolution means to quadruplicate their size.

when playing, the main process already sits on 1GB of ram.

maybe the dx11 client will be a 64bit application and allow SE to release high res packs.

32bit software can address 4GB.. why they don't is a different matter. Also texture packs don't sit in system RAM, they sit in VRAM on your GPU...

[Kosmos992k]

Actually, they've acknowledged on multiple occasions that they dropped the graphics to support the ps3 and to support lower end pc's. They absolutely did do exactly what you say they weren't.

Hold on a minute, *if* the PS3 is genuinely holding back the PC client, how can the PC client run at anything beyond 720p? How can it have additional physics, better textures and effects than the PS3 - *if* the Ps3 version is holding it back? Clearly the PC client can run higher than 720p, it has additional physics, more effects and more detailed textures than the PS3 version. Sure the engine can also handle low end PCs, and funnily enough that is a positive effect since it allows more people to play, the efforts ti include lower end PCs and PS3 results in far more players being able to play, but for people with a high end PC, the graphical experience is much better than the low end or PS3 - because the engine scales with the hardware. Claiming that the PS3 held it back ignores the fact that the game OBVIOUSLY looks better on a high end PC at 1080p or greater, than it does on a PS3.

[Kosmos992k]

if PS4 is the lowest common denominator, and we all know it will, that in its own right might hinder the graphics for PC users, as we all don't want just ps4 port, i mean for some people ps4 will look same as pc,
**snip**
now what would stop them for pushing what graphics are like for MMO's, if they scale correctly, and use AMD mantle, sucks for Nivida users , then should even see more implementations for better graphics instead of use of DX11 API, as DX11 APi is bottleneck to what GPU's and CPU can do, as it most people should know DX11 is not great, future is mantle , metal on metal performance . well closer then anything MS has with DX11

Mantle is a low-level API specification[2] developed by AMD as an alternative to Direct3D and OpenGL. Currently the only implementation is for AMD's GCN graphics processing unit architecture

Um, OK, whatever, but you are aware - I guess(?) - that PS4 uses a GCN GPU (and not the low end variant found in the Xbox One), in addition to the new Jaguar based CPU cores. the PS4 APU (CPU cores and GPU cores on a single die with shared cache and data bus) maintains a single high speed, wide data bus to the GDDR5 system memory, allowing both CPU and GPU to access the same memory at GPU memory speeds. As far as 'Mantle' is concnered, "Currently the only implementation is for AMD's GCN graphics processing unit architecture" - that's nice because PS4 runs an entirely AMD hardware platform that is ideal suited to "mantle , metal on metal performance".

PS4 will not be as powerful as a mid-high end gaming rig, but it will be lots more powerful than most consumer grade PCs sold at launch, not to mention the simple fact that it is a targeted platform optimized for gaming without the software overheads of the Windows world to worry about. I don't think you need worry about PS4 holding the game or graphics engine back at all.

[Tiraelina]

32bit software can address 4GB.. why they don't is a different matter. Also texture packs don't sit in system RAM, they sit in VRAM on your GPU...

In DX9 they sit in both, one of the big issues with it. DX11 is a lot more than pretty effects, its very significant back-end changes.

[Tiggy]

Hold on a minute, *if* the PS3 is genuinely holding back the PC client, how can the PC client run at anything beyond 720p? How can it have additional physics, better textures and effects than the PS3 - *if* the Ps3 version is holding it back? Clearly the PC client can run higher than 720p, it has additional physics, more effects and more detailed textures than the PS3 version. Sure the engine can also handle low end PCs, and funnily enough that is a positive effect since it allows more people to play, the efforts ti include lower end PCs and PS3 results in far more players being able to play, but for people with a high end PC, the graphical experience is much better than the low end or PS3 - because the engine scales with the hardware. Claiming that the PS3 held it back ignores the fact that the game OBVIOUSLY looks better on a high end PC at 1080p or greater, than it does on a PS3.

You act like running in a higher resolution means anything to this discussion. Obviously the pc version has higher settings than a locked down ps3, but you ignore that the engine was made in directx 9 explicitly to help make the ps3 version run better. Regardless of 1.0 the entire engine is different and likely performs better than the original engine would have on the ps3. So to everyone saying "omg the 1.0 engine was supposed to be launched on ps3" I respond that you all have no idea how effectively it would have actually achieved that. Consider for a moment how monumentally bad the 1.0 launch was in so many ways and you have such faith that 1.0 was all ready to go for the ps3? Even after it required blisteringly fast pc's just to run the game?. I say that is very doubtful indeed. Also, I never said pc's couldn't exceed the ps3, but to suggest the development of the engine didn't take into account ps3 limitations for the launch is lol-worthy. It absolutely did, and with time and release of the directx 11 version we will exceed the ps3 handily. Everyone is just fretting over this like it won't come in time. It will. They already talked about it before. However, right now it isn't a priority compared to getting the game stabilized.

[Tiggy]

In DX9 they sit in both, one of the big issues with it. DX11 is a lot more than pretty effects, its very significant back-end changes.

Directx 11 also supports larger texture sizes. Which is one of the most significant things really.

[Kosmos992k]

You act like running in a higher resolution means anything to this discussion. Obviously the pc version has higher settings than a locked down ps3, but you ignore that the engine was made in directx 9 explicitly to help make the ps3 version run better.

I'm not ignoring that, nor am I ignoring your own statement that it enables players with less capable PCs to play as well. Aside from anything else PS3 doesn't use DX9, it uses different APIs, and is not bound by the limits of DX9. Lower performance PCs on the other hand are explicitly limited by DX9 hardware.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

have people already forgotten that when the PS4 version comes out, there will be a DX11 client for PC? there you go, the DX9 version and the DX11 version.

[Ryios]

A 64 bit client would be amazing. Would be nice to actually see my 16gig's of ram get used instead of just 2 to 3 gig's of it. This game uses so little of my ram that I can run my SharePoint 2013 Virtual Machine in VirtualBox (4 cores and 10 gig of ram) and play FFXIV at the same time and down titan while code on my VM is compiling and the IIS Sites are recycling....

Imo they should have made this game with two clients out the gate, and put ps3 on their own servers. Then make it so if you want to play on PC you transfer your character to a PC server or vice versa to play on PS3. Then their would be isolation, no complaining, alleviated congestion, and they could focus one team on PC and one team on ps3/ps4.

[Kosmos992k]

Imo they should have made this game with two clients out the gate, and put ps3 on their own servers. Then make it so if you want to play on PC you transfer your character to a PC server or vice versa to play on PS3.

So, you believe in segregation for the win....? ::rolls eyes::