Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Ariahna]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

[Ayvar]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

I would say that this is mostly accurate. Every discussion I've seen about whether or not melee have a place in coil boils down to whether you want to trade damage for ease of completion. The main benefit to melee dps is damage, and they will perform better than the other classes if played correctly. However, very few of the fights in Coil are enough of a dps race that the added damage from the melee makes the difference. Turn 1 favors utility since extra damage isn't needed (the fight is a snore and can even be kited) and ranged can do everything a melee can on the fight while still providing the added utility to make it easier. Turn 2 ranged have a simpler time avoiding AE (though this isn't much of an issue if you play right), they don't have to pause dps to pass their rot debuff, and since Turn 2 is a survival fight a little extra dps doesn't mean much over the increase in survivability provided by range. People might argue that downing the fight faster is increasing "survivability" since it reduces the chances for mistakes, but there aren't many groups that will agree that the slight reduction in fight duration is worth losing the utility of silences/mana/rot/AE avoidance.

Turn 4 is probably the first instance where every ounce of dps you can squeeze out is worth it. Dragoon AE is quite good so the group doesn't suffer there, and the added single target damage and limit break is good for the Dreadnaughts and the single Rook spawn. The only downside to taking a Dragoon over a caster dps is the added AE damage from the soldiers, but this is only a factor on the 4-soldier spawn and any Dragoon that knows anything about weaving in and out of melee range between GCDs can essentially counteract almost all of that damage.

In short, I agree with you on Turns 1 and 2, but not on Turn 4. Currently, finding a good Free Company is probably your best bet, since I do not see much motivation for PUG groups to want melee (for the moment) as they would primarily aim for the least complicated Turn 1/2 completion.

[Maero]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

[Casterbridge]

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

From whatI've seen the big issues is the fights are generally unfriendly to melee. Next a lot of the dragoon utility is useless in the raid. Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon (not saying this is true or untrue just stating popular opinion I've seen) also the monk has slightly better usable utility.

So, especially in PuG groups, dragoons are pretty much bottom of the barrel choice wise, with monks close behind, it's just easier to bring ranged dps, think the most popular groups formed right now are 2x paladins, 2x bard, 1x BM, 1x other ranged, 1x White Mage and 1x Scholar.

Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

[Sparhwk]

SNip....
Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

I've done coil turn 4 twice now as Dragoon. Popular opinion is nothing but hogwash. Most people get a retarted idea in their head and stick with it despite not knowing how things actually work or basing their idea on an imperfect parse.

Like any raid it can be a pain for melee but it's perfectly learnable and you can stay close to best dps with ranged as you learn the encounters and little tricks to make the fight eaiser. Coil is more abuot player skill than class comp, other than paladins due to damage intake.

[Bossmoney]

Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon

If you have one Bard in your party, your Disembowel buff will increase his damage by 15-20% which will already be slightly more than the difference between DRG & MNK dps since BRD dps is easier to maintain. If your party has 2 or more BRDs, then it becomes no contest.

[himehime]

If you have one Bard in your party, your Disembowel buff will increase his damage by 15-20% which will already be slightly more than the difference between DRG & MNK dps since BRD dps is easier to maintain. If your party has 2 or more BRDs, then it becomes no contest.

consider that 20% of a bards damage will typically come from DoTs, and that disembowel doesn't affect the DoT effect they have. it's probably a bit lower than 10% tbh - but BRDs do end up doing more dmg than DRG when disembowel is kept up (i do something like 255~ on FFXIV app, 265-270~ on logrep. a BRD with less gear than me on a dummy with disembowel up did 265-275ish (difference between our parses) with FFXIV app, 270 on logrep

[LongNu]

Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon (not saying this is true or untrue just stating popular opinion I've seen) also the monk has slightly better usable utility.

This couldn't be further from the truth. DRG is by far the best single target DPS uninterrupted. What lowers their DPS is the clunky endgame mechanics where you have to constantly dodge. Monks make up for it by the utility they provide to the raid. My group runs 2x DRG just for the insane damage output we can put out in coil. Also DRG utility shouldn't really even be considered 'utility' but 'synergy'. They synergize well with bards because of the obvious debuff they provide.

[himehime]

This couldn't be further from the truth. DRG is by far the best single target DPS uninterrupted. What lowers their DPS is the clunky endgame mechanics where you have to constantly dodge. Monks make up for it by the utility they provide to the raid. My group runs 2x DRG just for the insane damage output we can put out in coil. Also DRG utility shouldn't really even be considered 'utility' but 'synergy'. They synergize well with bards because of the obvious debuff they provide.

post video/log where you parse higher than mnk/smn uninterrupted over 240s or more, if you're so convinced~

(before you call out the parser on being faulty, you can calculate smn dps with napkin math and underestimate it, and it'd still smash drg dps lol)

[Ayvar]

you can calculate smn dps with napkin math and underestimate it, and it'd still smash drg dps lol

I'd be very interested to see this. Feel free to post the napkin math, I'm not familiar with the optimal summoner rotation/priority.