"Fix Warrior" Threads

[Terabyt3]

Like i've said in a few other threads the whole shield thing is just an easy way out and stil doesnt alleviate the problem.

That problem is that WARs main form of mitigation is self healing. and that mitigation is STATIC. Regardless of if you are fighting a doormouse or titan or cacadeus, with the perfect rotation you will always heal for x ammount.

PLD's on the other hand mitigate a % of incoming damage. Because % scales with the ammount of incoming damage against a doormouse it will be relitavley little mitigation. Against cacadeus though it will be far greater.

Until WAR's main form of mitigation scales according to incoming damage instead of static they will never be on par with each other. WAR will out tank PLD if the incoming dps is below a certain level. Once the incoming dps gets above that level PLD starts becoming more effective.

Defiance needs to scale self healing based on incoming damage. Do that and WAR is fixed and can tank anything PLD can without extra healing. The difference being PLD is proactive and war is reactive. WAR has to through out those abilities to get his health back (Hence the 25% hp boost for defiance to allow him to take a hit and still be standing). Bloodbath, IB, Thrill of battle need to scale on incoming the same as PLD's cool downs do. Storms path needs to scale to reflect the ammount of damage being blocked by a pld. Instead of fixed numbers. Thats whats causing war problems right now

[Hundred]

That problem is that WARs main form of mitigation is self healing. and that mitigation is STATIC. Regardless of if you are fighting a doormouse or titan or cacadeus, with the perfect rotation you will always heal for x ammount.

This shouldn't be a problem IMO. Healers heals don't scale based on Enemy damage, they scale like the Warrior on their on output. The WAR's inner beast remains relevant from the moment you get it. Storm path doesn't however, it healed me for 2-3% of my health when I first got it, which wasn't very practical of it's own accord but it's more damage after Maim. I observe coil runs and it changes from 2-3% to 1-2%. The % barely shifted and it doesn't matter because it healed for almost nothing from the very moment you get it.

If I look at WAR from my own experience
Storm path doesn't heal for anything even in the early game and needs to absorb for more.
Brutal swing's animation speed is fairly long for a stun even if it is off the gcd, shaving .3s on the animation would be felt.
Mercy stroke is not a practical healing skill given the 20% condition and then on-kill condition and should likely be reassessed I use it more and see it used more as just a dps increase. The frequency you can use it just means you can throw it out for damage more often than a PLD, because using it as a heal isn't even real life.


Do any of these things change from early game to Coil? From what I've observed, the answer is really no, it only shows more clearly. Two of it's class self-heals don't work that well from the beginning so how can they be meaningful mitigation end-game? All the WAR's I watch completing Coils, do it pretty much without using either of those two skills as self heals, which means they aren't used for mitigation...so they're not helping WAR's survive. It's not a skill issue (well I guess landing Mercy stroke on some level is) but that they aren't practical heals.

[Surfie]

First, there isn't an official "off-tank" role. Otherwise, you'd be able to queue as an Offtank.

Second, Warriors weren't designed to be off-tanks. If they were, don't you think Provoke would be a baseline ability for Marauders then? Taunt is better for the off-tank than it is for the main-tank.

[Ehayte]

Until WAR's main form of mitigation scales according to incoming damage instead of static they will never be on par with each other. WAR will out tank PLD if the incoming dps is below a certain level. Once the incoming dps gets above that level PLD starts becoming more effective.

Are there fights that exemplify this attribute of WAR? i.e. the main boss doesn't hit extremely hard but there are a ton of AEs and healers need to focus on healing the group instead, and the WAR uses his self healing to out-tank the PLD with low income damage? Or is the Coil and other end-game progression linear in the sense that the only increasing difficulty is "mob hit harder, more hp". I'm leveling up a WAR now as my FC is a little behind me overall in progression, so I haven't cracked Titan yet, much less been to Coil.

[Pinch]

Are there fights that exemplify this attribute of WAR? i.e. the main boss doesn't hit extremely hard but there are a ton of AEs and healers need to focus on healing the group instead, and the WAR uses his self healing to out-tank the PLD with low income damage?

If you had something that didn't hit hard, you wouldn't need a tank to begin with. The tank you used would be irrelevant in that situation.

[Derza]

Paladins would still be better in that situation because they take more effective healing than a Warrior.

That is not true... If a warrior is taking about 350 incoming DPS or less and using IB often the warrior will need less outside healing than the paladin. The issue with Warrior vs PLD is that the threshold where PLD surpasses warrior is fairly low( Incoming DPS wise ) And anything over that threshold you start to see huge differences in survivability.

[Pinch]

That is not true... If a warrior is taking about 350 incoming DPS or less and using IB often the warrior will need less outside healing than the paladin. The issue with Warrior vs PLD is that the threshold where PLD surpasses warrior is fairly low( Incoming DPS wise ) And anything over that threshold you start to see huge differences in survivability.

You caught me before my edit.

Anyways, if you were taking that little DPS, you could just use a DPS class to tank it.

[Derza]

You caught me before my edit.

Anyways, if you were taking that little DPS, you could just use a DPS class to tank it.

If that worked i'm sure they would... but if you bring another DPS class the Healer would be "tanking" it.

Also if you had a DPS tanking it they wouldn't be taking the 350 dps that a warrior would... it would be closer to 400-450+ (because of armor and what not) and they wouldn't be able to hold threat - So point is Warrior is best option for 4 man dungeons but beyond that it is very hard to justify having a warrior in the group.

Sadly i had to do Titan on my warrior in the DPS role. Was just too hard to convince anyone to stay with a warrior tank - And I ended up averaging 146 DPS for the fight (with ifrits axe), i was 3rd dps behind the 2 bards that already had relic weapons( they had 185 dps and 160 dps avg for the fight).

[Ehayte]

If you had something that didn't hit hard, you wouldn't need a tank to begin with. The tank you used would be irrelevant in that situation.

That would not work. Something that is doing 350dps (referenced above) would be doing a much higher amount to any one of the dps or caster classes due to armor, mitigation, cool downs, etc, and they wouldn't be able to hold enmity, which is more important.

I have been a proponent of a WAR buff for a while, if they could bring that break even point up to something like 450dps would that make a difference? And to my other point, are there any fights where the boss doesn't hit extraordinarily hard, but does a lot of AE damage in Coil?

[Derza]

Are there fights that exemplify this attribute of WAR? i.e. the main boss doesn't hit extremely hard but there are a ton of AEs and healers need to focus on healing the group instead, and the WAR uses his self healing to out-tank the PLD with low income damage? Or is the Coil and other end-game progression linear in the sense that the only increasing difficulty is "mob hit harder, more hp". I'm leveling up a WAR now as my FC is a little behind me overall in progression, so I haven't cracked Titan yet, much less been to Coil.

Warriors are great for 4 man dungeons - better than paladins on most bosses there. 8 man dungeons on the other hand, I can't think of any boss where a warrior would be better off.