"Fix Warrior" Threads

[Tzukuma]

Ok so, after lurking forums for awhile, I've come to terms with the whole "warrior is the inferior tank" thing, because its true. People complain that we don't have enough mitigation, and people are doing through some fairly and overcomplicated methods of "fixing warriors"

People say:
A) Warriors don't have the mitigation PLD has. (true)
B) Warriors suck (not totally true)
C) Inner Beast sucks, it's not worth losing your Wrath stacks for.

That just about covers what everybody is talking about, other than brainstorming ideas of how to "fix" warriors.

Aaaaaaaaaaand I'm about to do the same thing. But it's unbelievably simple, and I'm not sure how much it will change the whole WAR vs PLD thing, but here goes.

What if, when you used Inner Beast and it overhealed you, you would gain the excess in a shield? i.e. you're at 5000/6000 hp, you pop inner beast, It heals for 1400. The initial 1000 is healed for, and the excess 400 becomes a shield. I'm not even sure how this would work with programming and coding, but I'm 100% sure its gonna be a pain in the ass.

The excess heal becoming a shield would give us a kind of damage mitigation have us be somewhat comparable to PLD (maybe?), and would give WAR a very legitimate and good reason to use their Wrath stacks on IB no matter how much health they have, effectively making it part of a rotation, rather than an 'oh sh*t' button.

Anywho, I don't mean for this idea of mine to put WAR on par with PLD, because seeing the roles right now, WAR was specifically designed to be an Offtank. However, this provides WAR with atleast the tools to be considered for a maintank, should a PLD be unavailable.

TL;DR : WAR=offtank, PLD=maintank, make excess heals from IB become a shield so WAR isn't 100% useless compared to PLD

EDIT: oright, this also gives a little more reason to dump Attribute points into STR for higher IB hits, but idk math on it, so ill leave it at that, as an idea.

EDIT2: i think a lot of you guys are missing what ive been saying. I'm not trying to make WAR on par with PLD, even Terabyt3 is missing my point here. did you guys even read my post? =\ i want WAR to have a little more breathing room with this idea of mine, not but them 100% on par with PLD. Instead of half the comments being arguments, and the static "WAR will always be worse until they make their healing scale with inc dmg," i kind of want a bit of feedback on this.

Also, i posted this just before i went to bed, and i woke up just about now, and had another idea, what if the heal from IB was % hp based, like Thrill of Battle, and provided the same shield effect like i was talking about before, or maybe even 1/3 of the hp healed becomes a shield. For those who dont understand the latter, say your have 4500/6000 HP. you IB and heal for 1000, making your hp 5500/6000, but you gain 33% as a shield, giving you EHP of 5833/6000. thoughts?

EDIT3: just gonna throw this out there, before i get burned to death from flame, No i dont mean you're points are bad, i understand where you're coming from and your methods of changing WAR is effective, i just want feedback on my own.

[Taemek]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

Truth is, people find it easier to whine, then to put the hard yards in and make it work. Warrior takes more effort to make it work. The only thing true about Paladins is, they are easier to play.

If you want easy mode button mash with little to no thinking required, play Paladin. If you want a class that requires you to think like a chess player and be a few moves ahead, play a Warrior.

[Anienai]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

Truth is, people find it easier to whine, then to put the hard yards in and make it work. Warrior takes more effort to make it work. The only thing true about Paladins is, they are easier to play.

If you want easy mode button mash with little to no thinking required, play Paladin. If you want a class that requires you to think like a chess player and be a few moves ahead, play a Warrior.

Pretty much all of this.

Anyone whining that War's need this or that should just hang up their G. Axe and take up pounding sand.

[Gamemako]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

No, it's all math and numbers.

How about WAR's stop blowing their wrath on IB? IB is only used when you have infuriate up to instantly restore your 5 stacks.

You've got 3 main issues here:

1) Infuriate has a cooldown.
2) You're seriously telling everyone to entirely stop using the main burst mitigation ability of the job.
3) Doing so, you'd end up as a gimped PLD at best (less than 15% average recovery compared to 25% effective recovery for PLD, basically no burst mitigation whatsoever)

[Kitru]

You've got 3 main issues here:

Except that he's right. Outside of Infuriate, where the cost is negated, and situational use while Berserk is active (i.e. you're low on hp and your healers aren't able to top you off before you die in the next GCD), Inner Beast is not an effective mitigation tool. As a rule of thumb, Inner Beast should only be used when you have Infuriate. There are a few situations where you want to use it otherwise, but, a *vast* majority of the time, you want to just use your Wrath V stacks.

[Gamemako]

Except that he's right. Outside of Infuriate, where the cost is negated, and situational use while Berserk is active (i.e. you're low on hp and your healers aren't able to top you off before you die in the next GCD), Inner Beast is not an effective mitigation tool. As a rule of thumb, Inner Beast should only be used when you have Infuriate. There are a few situations where you want to use it otherwise, but, a *vast* majority of the time, you want to just use your Wrath V stacks.

Oh, I certainly agree. I could go dig up the math elsewhere where I pointed out that using IB at all is not efficient due to the loss of the wrath stacks. The point is that you're not actually getting anything out of that strategy either.

[Kitru]

Oh, I certainly agree. I could go dig up the math elsewhere where I pointed out that using IB at all is not efficient due to the loss of the wrath stacks. The point is that you're not actually getting anything out of that strategy either.

You're getting more out of the Wrath hoarding strategy compared to the active IB use strategy. Both strategies still get less than was a PLD gets by just standing around, which is what I'm guessing is your point. The point the individual you quoted was trying to make, I believe, is coming from a WAR optimization perspective rather than a PLD/WAR comparative perspective.

[Raze_Krauser]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

Truth is, people find it easier to whine, then to put the hard yards in and make it work. Warrior takes more effort to make it work. The only thing true about Paladins is, they are easier to play.

If you want easy mode button mash with little to no thinking required, play Paladin. If you want a class that requires you to think like a chess player and be a few moves ahead, play a Warrior.

hear, hear

[Vmage]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

Truth is, people find it easier to whine, then to put the hard yards in and make it work. Warrior takes more effort to make it work. The only thing true about Paladins is, they are easier to play.

If you want easy mode button mash with little to no thinking required, play Paladin. If you want a class that requires you to think like a chess player and be a few moves ahead, play a Warrior.

interestingly enough, that's actually the exact opposite of the reality.

to play a paladin properly, you need to preemptively use your cooldowns, you need that extra mitigation up before you take that big hit.

to play a warrior properly, you only need to notice that you've taken a big chunk of damage already, and use inner beast after you've taken that big hit.

[Terabyt3]

Like i've said in a few other threads the whole shield thing is just an easy way out and stil doesnt alleviate the problem.

That problem is that WARs main form of mitigation is self healing. and that mitigation is STATIC. Regardless of if you are fighting a doormouse or titan or cacadeus, with the perfect rotation you will always heal for x ammount.

PLD's on the other hand mitigate a % of incoming damage. Because % scales with the ammount of incoming damage against a doormouse it will be relitavley little mitigation. Against cacadeus though it will be far greater.

Until WAR's main form of mitigation scales according to incoming damage instead of static they will never be on par with each other. WAR will out tank PLD if the incoming dps is below a certain level. Once the incoming dps gets above that level PLD starts becoming more effective.

Defiance needs to scale self healing based on incoming damage. Do that and WAR is fixed and can tank anything PLD can without extra healing. The difference being PLD is proactive and war is reactive. WAR has to through out those abilities to get his health back (Hence the 25% hp boost for defiance to allow him to take a hit and still be standing). Bloodbath, IB, Thrill of battle need to scale on incoming the same as PLD's cool downs do. Storms path needs to scale to reflect the ammount of damage being blocked by a pld. Instead of fixed numbers. Thats whats causing war problems right now