Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[HiirNoivl]

You do 300 DPS? So you out dps everyone in the game.

The Paladins I've seen DPS about 60. lol They spam the same combo over and over again for hate. about 140 DPS not counting Fracture DoTs. I had a Paladin practically drooling over my DPS and he was in AF +1 and I'm in level 70.

wait lol so you go for str. gear like armor and so on? what is you magic def. and physical def.? what is you parry at ohh and how much hp do you have when you tank lets say Titan HM or Coil? if we talk about the 30 stat you get as an option, that dont = 3x the damage of a paladin, but hey if you do that much damage you even out dps bard and monks, i think il call this BS and keep you assumtion for yourslef or show me a parse of you as tank, and the other dps numbers to and then show me a parse of a paladin as tank and the other dps damage numbers...

I go for both ViT and STR. VIT stacking I've decided is the wrong strategy. It's a Mana waster and a DPS killer, and WARs who stack Vit have sucky Self heals and can't stay up without cure bombs. I use a mix of VIT and STR accessories and do much better.

My magic and Physical DEF right now is plenty as my gear is Darklight or better. My parry is find since I use Fending Accessories. My HP when I tank Titan is 6990 without Thrill of Battle (plus food) Which is still more than PLD. I'm not talking about 30 STR, I'm talking about 20. I think 30 is flipping too far in the other direction.

You can call lies all you want. I'd like to see a PLD do a 20 min AK run or a 5 min Garuda run. Heck, I'd like to see a Vit Stacked WAR do that much. I did about 90-95 DPS on WAR for Garuda, now I do around 130-140. Same with Lizard Thing in AK.

It's not just a change in Stats. Flipping a couple of STRs doesn't add up to such a huge change. What changes when you don't stack VIT is your manner of game play, your efforts to keep DPSing (and self healing) as much as possible.

I might go back to a bit more VIT later on when I have more of a feel for this DPS focused tanking, but for now, I'm pretty pleased with the results.

I'm sure that PLDs that do 100 DPS are not Vit stacked. The ones that I've played with ARE. That's why I do so much more damage than them. PLD is not DPS focused, but mitigation focused. Sentinal Rampart and Bulwark do 0 damage. But all of my mitigation ups damage and mitigates by means of that upped damage.

So it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that when played properly there is a big difference between the DPS numbers of WAR and PLD.

[Surfie]

The Paladins I've seen DPS about 60. lol They spam the same combo over and over again for hate. about 140 DPS not counting Fracture DoTs. I had a Paladin practically drooling over my DPS and he was in AF +1 and I'm in level 70.

1. You used 1 paladin who did 60 dps to argue that you can do 3x more dps than all paladins. That's a fallacy right there.

2. 140/60 is not 3.

[HiirNoivl]

1. You used 1 paladin who did 60 dps to argue that you can do 3x more dps than all paladins. That's a fallacy right there.

2. 140/60 is not 3.

It's not 5% either. XDD

So let's call it even Mmkay. And I didn't include DoTS from Fracture. Which I always Buff and put on for Max Damage.

[Kitru]

So let's call it even Mmkay.

Any PAL doing 60 DPS against a comparatively geared WAR that's doing 160 DPS has no idea what they're doing.

First off, WAR and PAL weapons both do the same amount of damage so there is no equipment disparity; it's all based off of abilities.

Shield Oath applies a 20% reduction in damage dealt. Defiance applies a 25% reduction.

Berserk provides a 50% increase to all damage for 20 seconds and prevents any damage from abilities for 5 seconds thanks to Pacification on a 90 sec CD. This means that, for abilities, it provides a 5.56% increase in damage ((1.5 * 20 + 0 * 5 + 1 * 65) / 90). For auto-attacks, it provides an 11.11% increase in damage (.5 * 20 / 90) Fight or Flight provides 30% over its duration, and a 33.33% uptime. Berserk provides, over time, 5.56% increase in DPS to abilities and . Fight or Flight provides 10%.

Maim provides 20% additional damage on an effectively permanent basis. Storm's Edge, if you've got a WAR and PAL together, provides the benefit to both (both do slashing damage and it reduces the target's resistance to that damage), but it provides an 11.11% (1/.9) increase in damage.

PAL gets Circle of Scorn, which provides 250 potency every 25 seconds, and Spirits Within, which provides ~270 potency (assuming either an average 3.33 sec delay to get to max hp or averaging 90% hp using on CD) every 30 seconds. This averages out to 25 and 22.5 potency per GCD added to PAL.

The Halone combo (i.e. what PALs spam) provides 610 potency (150 + 200 + 260) over 7.5 seconds. The BB>SE combo string provides 1240 potency ((150 + 200 + 280) + (150 + 190 + 270)) over 15 seconds. These average out to 203.3 and 206.6 potency per GCD.

Auto-attacks have a default potency of 83.33 per GCD (auto-attacks deal weapon damage over 3 seconds which equates to potency 83.33 per GCD).

So, let's put it all together.

PAL (PAL tanking alone):
(203.3 + 25 + 22.5 + 83.33) * 1.1 * .8 = 294.03 average potency per GCD

PAL (PAL paired with WAR):
(203.3 + 25 + 22.5 + 83.33) * 1.1 * .8 / 0.9 = 326.70 average potency per GCD

WAR:
(206.6 * 1.0556 + 83.33 * 1.11) * 1.2 * .75 / .9 = 310.6 average potency per GCD

So a PAL either does 94.66% of the damage that a WAR does or 105.2% of what a WAR does (close enough to call it "within 5%").

The only time that a WAR outdoes a PAL for damage is when they are tanking alone, and, even if they're tanking together, a PAL manages a *crapton* more threat because they get to spam their high enmity combo whereas a WAR has to alternate between their high enmity combo and a default combo.

So, yeah, it's a complete and utter fabrication that WARs do more damage than PAL. Hell, WAR is *worse* at enmity generation than a PAL thanks to being forced to use non-high enmity combos to maximize DPS. Anyone that claims that WARs have some kind of absurd DPS advantage compared to PALs is either mathematically incompetent or deluded.

P.S. Fracture only bump up the baseline ability potency per GCD to 213.85, which brings the end total up to 318.24. This would have a PAL doing either 92.40% or 102.65%.

[Savish]

First off, WAR and PAL weapons both do the same amount of damage so there is no equipment disparity; it's all based off of abilities.

This is 100% false
make two identical characters one warrior and one gladiator at lvl 1
Weathered Axe with 150 potency attack does 9-10 Damage
Weathered Sword with 150 potency attack does 6-7 Damage
tested on lvl 1 lady bug

Both have a physical damage of 5, so clearly the damage on weapons is not IDENTICAL or there would not be a 30% discrepancy, it seems damage is calculated based off the auto-attack damage when using abilities not the physical damage listed.

[Thotor]

This is 100% false
make two identical characters one warrior and one gladiator at lvl 1
Weathered Axe with 150 potency attack does 9-10 Damage
Weathered Sword with 150 potency attack does 6-7 Damage
tested on lvl 1 lady bug

Both have a physical damage of 5, so clearly the damage on weapons is not IDENTICAL or there would not be a 30% discrepancy, it seems damage is calculated based off the auto-attack damage when using abilities not the physical damage listed.

You forgot weapon speed.

[Savish]

Weapon speed doesn't apply to abilities everything is on a 2.5s GCD but yeah...

[Kitru]

This is 100% false

Are you sure it wasn't a crit, because that's a 50% difference in damage dealt. There's also the fact that there is a lot of variability in damage dealt. The listed weapon damage is an average, not a flat quantity.

If what you're saying were true, there wouldn't be any point to looking at a weapon's baseline damage. The only thing that would matter would be auto-attack damage.

I just went out and tested on my own character against level 1 ladybugs. All gear except for the weapon was the same. Tank stances were not used. Using an Axe with damage of 39 and auto-attack of 44.72, I was dealing ~135 damage with Heavy Swing and ~100 with my autoattack. Using a Sword with damage of 30 and auto-attack of 20.8, I was dealing ~100 damage with Fast Blade and ~50 with my auto-attack.

Both Fast Blade and Heavy Blade have a potency of 150. If what you're saying were true, the ratio between the special attacks and auto-attacks would be the same: the ratio of the auto-attacks is ~2:1 whereas the ratio of special attack damage is ~4:3. The ratios are most definitely *not*. In fact, the ratio between the baseline weapon damage and the special attack damage of the two weapons is effectively the same: the two weapons had a ratio of ~4:3 for their baseline damage and ~4:3 for their special attack damage.

As such, special attacks use weapon damage, not auto-attack damage. You may want to use a sample size larger than 1 before you go trying to correct someone.