Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[Coramac]

" I feel like SE at least ONE time ... beat this Coil with a Pld war setup at least one time".... its a feeling... dont judge me lol......

Nice face and tattoo selection.

Basically, it works like this:

Pal and War have the same static EHP. With 15% War healing in healing intense scenarios, Pal have 8.7% more EHP. At 0% healing, Pal have 25% more EHP. Yes, you could likely orient your entire raid around having a War tank something or, you could bring a Pal, and have a lot more flexibility or room to optimize. Pal have 2 (or arguably 3) tanking cooldowns that blow away everything a War has. Lining up an big IB is good and takes multiple cooldowns. A Pal clicks one CD and they do everything IB does only better and for an extended period of time and execute faster.

Pal are not invincible. They are not indestructible tanking deities who laugh as they are tickled by raid bosses. They are, however, undisputedly better at tanking than Warriors.

[HiirNoivl]

Tanks of all kinds need help from party Members. If you want to "fix" damage mitigation on tanks, then why not take a look at your party?

For example: A SCH using Fey Light on a WAR, really helps the WAR by upping his skill speed and helping him to get to Wrath V more quickly. Fey glow assists all the healers by increasing the amount their cure's do. Succor is an AoE cure that nullifies damage, and Sacred Soil, does something similar and can stack with Succor by giving it a free cast.

In the case of WHM, Regen is really great when alternated with Stoneskin which scales with max HP.

Monks have Mantra which also increases the amount of HP regenerated by party members. (Which helps cure both tanks and increases Succor's healing capacity and also its damage nullification.).

Black Mage's Manawall nullifies two Physical Attacks. Eye for an Eye reduces damage and has a 20% chance that a Debuff nerf damage done by 10%. Virus also helps nullify damage.

[Blazn]

So OP you think upping our damage will help damage mitigation your logic is nonexistent

[HiirNoivl]

900~ HP... Is a pittance.

1700-2800 is not.

Look I understand that you've TRIED playing Warrior, but you stacked VIT, didn't deal much damage, didn't stack much enmity, couldn't heal yourself, couldn't survive, sucked Mana and made the healers rage quit.

I know because I made the same mistakes. But instead of giving up, I stepped back reassessed and gotten better at my job, to the benefit of myself and my parties.

I have 6770 and play better than I did with 8000. That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I see something INGAME that makes me feel differently.

[Kitru]

1700-2800 is not.

First off, I take it as a bit of an insult that you automatically assume that I'm having a bitch of a time on my WAR. I'm not. I do quite well because I *do* know how to play a WAR effectively. I put all of my bonus attributes into Strength, because I *know* that it provides more than Vit does. It's a bit presumptive to tell someone that has shown you math that you're wrong that they're somehow making a crapton of newbie mistakes when it's pretty apparently that I actually know more about the class than you do.

Secondly, if you can *regularly* manage a 1700-2800 Inner Beast, I will eat my shoe. The only way you're getting those numbers is by boosting it *heavily* with CDs and scoring a critical hit, none of which are even remotely close to reliable, not to mention that, because you're waiting for a CD to be up, it might as well be the one you're saving Infuriate to recover from. Hell, that's *exactly* how I use my Inner Beast.

The issue is that Inner Beast, used in such a way, is *not* a viable boost to mean mitigation. It's a reactive CD that requires a *shit-ton* of set up (compared to the default "click it and it does its job) and luck (since you really need that crit). I was pointing out that using Inner Beast as soon as you have it available means you're going to be *hurting* yourself.

Also, the 900 healing number came from you in the post I quoted from. If you want to correct the Inner Beast heal number I used, you might want to make sure that you're not correcting your own number.

[Glakan]

This is what I don't get People put points into STR. Why? I'm serious why are you putting point into this stat?. Vit is mostly the way to go. I feel that most people go for STR because they see ooo I can parry more damage. YES but your parry has a chance to occur. If you don't parry that hit or dodge it you don't have a shield so what keeps you for being alive. Your defence and your HP, bigger health pool means that you can take a lot more hits. Yes you are spikier then a PLD but that is always been the case for non shield tanks in any MMO your healers just need to work around it. Use your CD correctly and just let the healers figure out how to heal you.

STR would be the way to go if you had a Parry chance of 100%. But it's not so you want to rely on defence and health pool to keep you alive.

[Kunkka]

This is what I don't get People put points into STR. Why? I'm serious why are you putting point into this stat?....

My warrior can't be healed passed 2 stacks on turn 1 coil boss with full VIT but can farm titan just fine with full STR. Warrior is a tome farming class, might as well use it at what its good for and put points in STR. I'm just going to level a PLD to tank coil.

[HiirNoivl]

First off, WAR and PAL weapons both do the same amount of damage so there is no equipment disparity; it's all based off of abilities.

Exactly.............. *sigh* That's what I've been trying to tell you.

Secondly, if you can *regularly* manage a 1700-2800 Inner Beast, I will eat my shoe. The only way you're getting those numbers is by boosting it *heavily* with CDs and scoring a critical hit, none of which are even remotely close to reliable, not to mention that, because you're waiting for a CD to be up, it might as well be the one you're saving Infuriate to recover from. Hell, that's *exactly* how I use my Inner Beast.

That's what you're supposed to do! Yes I can manage a regular 1700.... Geez, and it's not hard. You tell me "You can't do that!" Have you even TRIED? That's what you're supposed to do!

Yes I do parse, yes I do practice. Yes that makes all the difference.

Are you buffing your Inner Beast? That's my biggest question. The lowest I get on Inner Beast is probably 1100 because I NEVER do a naked inner beast, but I regularly hit 1700. I'm dead serious. Particularly on single target bosses.

I shouldn't have to stand up here and be the one to prove this. I don't even put on all my stats into STR. If you do put all your attribute points into STR, why in the world aren't you getting bigger numbers than me? That's a question I have.

How can you sit here and say that WAR doesn't do much more DPS than PLD, that it's Self heals don't matter, and that it has almost no survivability when we're both doing the same content successfully and you have more STR?

I don't know where WARs are breaking down. At this point I'm at a loss. I can go out and I can parse and I can get all the big numbers and I can come here and post them, like I have. and people cry, "Lucky shot!" or "Cherry picker! Make a FRAPS video!"

This is what I don't get People put points into STR. Why? I'm serious why are you putting point into this stat?. Vit is mostly the way to go. I feel that most people go for STR because they see ooo I can parry more damage. YES but your parry has a chance to occur. If you don't parry that hit or dodge it you don't have a shield so what keeps you for being alive. Your defence and your HP, bigger health pool means that you can take a lot more hits. Yes you are spikier then a PLD but that is always been the case for non shield tanks in any MMO your healers just need to work around it. Use your CD correctly and just let the healers figure out how to heal you.

STR would be the way to go if you had a Parry chance of 100%. But it's not so you want to rely on defence and health pool to keep you alive.

No, it's not because of Parry, it's because of self Heals. Even with 20 points into STR, so long as I have VIT accessories I still have more HP than PLDs by about 1000 and I can self heal myself just fine. The problem with dumping all my stuff into VIT is that I couldn't self heal and I relied too much on Mages and it prolonged the fight and was a stress on people. Also, it hurt enmity I was gaining from my DPS abilities a bit.

That extra 1000 HP cost a lot in the long run and really didn't help a lot. It doesn't matter if you have 8000 HP as a WAR. If you can't fill that HP pool you have no survivability.