Bard readjustment

[Pmtranger]

Songs are fine, if im with my guild I use TS/Mumble so I ask them to say if they need songs and do it instantly, In pugs I say before we start "Need tp/mana/Foes say". Bards who dont use it are just gimping there group when it comes to Coil and Titan if your a bard and your like nah dps loss no thanks just re roll :P.

as for songs needing a rework I dont think they do there fine as they are, I saw a good idea that when you play a song it gives your party a debuff that pretty much means that they cant be affected by it again for 30 seconds which is a nice idea but not sure it would work.

I think our Limit break needs reworking to something else supporting like granting a 30 second song that does both tp and mana but reduces our damage by 25% or somthing would be nice but I dont see why you just wouldnt ever use a DD one.

[Kevee]

It lowers DPS by 20% while it's up. I don't recall the uptime off the top of my head, but I want to say it's around 1/3 or so, which means singing is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 6-7% DPS decrease, which is not insignificant.

To be clear, I'm not advocating Bards not using songs when appropriate, I'm just agreeing that they are a not-insignificant DPS hit.

fyi

It won't be that significant since DoTs aren't modular. They only take into account buffs when it is first applied, so if you apply them and sing it's not as much of a loss.

Not saying it's a not big personal loss, but that doesn't matter because it boosts the groups DPS by more.

[Kevee]

Songs are fine, if im with my guild I use TS/Mumble so I ask them to say if they need songs and do it instantly, In pugs I say before we start "Need tp/mana/Foes say". Bards who dont use it are just gimping there group when it comes to Coil and Titan if your a bard and your like nah dps loss no thanks just re roll :P.

If they don't ask for songs you should be using Foe anyways.

It doesn't lower your damage, and it boosts your Windbite/Flaming Arrow damage, and almost every class has some form of elemental damage they use.

[Thotor]

The only time healers should be running out of mana is during Titan and Coil. If you need it for anything else then they are being careless with their mana or your group is undergeared. If you are going into Titan/Coil with a Bard too selfish to mana song then replacing them shouldn't be an issue.

Exactly there is no need for mana song until Titan. People should stop playing bad.
On the other hand, bards should know they only need to play mana songs for like 10-20 seconds maximum. Only WHM requires mana anyway.

I hate to rain on your parade, but I would hardly call the lack of a DD limit break "nothing".
Have you tried to run Demon Wall or Ifrit (Hardmode) with only Bard DD?
Not wholly impossible, but without a doubt harder than bringing other DD's that can limit break.

On the contrary , 2 bard goes faster. I always had the least problem running 2 bard because you don't need limit break compared to other class

Again I don't want to use the word nerf, but bards' damage needs to be lowered and songs need to have their debuff removed.

I strongly agree.
Bards has too much advantage. Strong DPS, high burst, no penalty for moving and Support skill (songs).
While the other class can come close to Bard DPS, they do not provide any group utility.

There is only 2 option : add group buff on other class or reduce bard dps.

[Kevee]

Exactly there is no need for mana song until Titan. People should stop playing bad.
On the other hand, bards should know they only need to play mana songs for like 10-20 seconds maximum. Only WHM requires mana anyway.

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

[savant07]

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

I didn't know summoners actually had issues with MP...I always thought they had ways to maintain unlimited MP.

[Kevee]

I didn't know summoners actually had issues with MP...I always thought they had ways to maintain unlimited MP.

If we want to sustain our max DPS(AKA using Thunder, Shadow Flare, and Fester) then we need mana after ~3-4 minutes or so. It gets worse if you need to battle rez, or need to AoE.

We can have "unlimited" mana but it severely lowers our DPS.

[Thotor]

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

Our SMN used to have problem until he realized he was using the wrong filler for rotation. I don't remember what the mistake was but since then he never had mana issues.
Rez and pet resummon does however drain mana (that's true for healers as well) but I count those as special situation.

[Kevee]

Our SMN used to have problem until he realized he was using the wrong filler for rotation. I don't remember what the mistake was but since then he never had mana issues.
Rez and pet resummon does however drain mana (that's true for healers as well) but I count those as special situation.

He's probably not keeping Thunder/Shadow Flare up like he does with Bio/Miasma/Bio II, and not using Miasma II during Contagion rotation.

[Alkalord]

We can have "unlimited" mana but it severely lowers our DPS.

Sounds like the same thing when bards play certain songs...