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  1. #1
    Player
    Lancil_Ryner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Lancil Ryner
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50

    Bard readjustment

    Ok so many people here have noticed that bard is seriously op at the moment. It has the most freedom of movement while never losing any kind of DPS. Now I don't want to say the word nerf, as this is usually taboo in any kind of game. Seriously though, it beats melee who are more prone to suffer attacks and rely on their ability to move around a mob to execute their more powerful moves. Blm suffers when it had to move around. Bard suffers from nothing. It can avoid all the attacks while remaining the top dps.

    Currently songs lower damage dealt by 20%. This needs to be removed immediately. I have run into bards who refuse to use it on white mages because their damage will begin to suffer.Overall this is a terrible design. Songs should not be something a bard has to contemplate about using because he/she wants more dps rather than to buff allies.

    Again I don't want to use the word nerf, but bards' damage needs to be lowered and songs need to have their debuff removed.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    savant07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    165
    Character
    Ashen Valanar
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    You realize summoners have their DoTs and pets attacking while moving which is the majority of their DPS not to mention they have the highest (by quite a margin if you check the other posts on the forums) DPS.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    NintenPyjak64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,187
    Character
    Evercy Warclan
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Bards that refuse to use songs are bards who are not confident with their rotations or just bad at it. I can use Ballad or Peon when DPS matters and still pull top to near top DPS.

    Just consider this: The increased Action Damage I and II traits (if they stack) gives +30% to action damage (if not just 20%), That's 130% base for our damage (I am not using this as +100% meaning double, I'm taking into account normal unmitigated damage or buffed damage being be 100% by default). Using a song, that only drops it to 110%(100%). There is no "loss of DPS" just a lost of increased DPS.

    I have FC members who play BLM in places with constent movement (Amdapor Keep as an example) and their DPS is still high. It's not about mobility being the issue it's knowing WHEN and WHERE to use your attacks
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    PessimiStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    266
    Character
    Ippon Seionage
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 63
    Quote Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64 View Post
    Just consider this: The increased Action Damage I and II traits (if they stack) gives +30% to action damage (if not just 20%), That's 130% base for our damage (I am not using this as +100% meaning double, I'm taking into account normal unmitigated damage or buffed damage being be 100% by default). Using a song, that only drops it to 110%(100%). There is no "loss of DPS" just a lost of increased DPS.
    Which is meaningless since the other DPS classes have similar traits. Songs are a net loss of personal DPS, and to argue otherwise is similar to arguing that 2 + 2 = 3.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    NintenPyjak64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,187
    Character
    Evercy Warclan
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    Which is meaningless since the other DPS classes have similar traits. Songs are a net loss of personal DPS, and to argue otherwise is similar to arguing that 2 + 2 = 3.
    The other jobs don't have abilities that drop DPS by 20%. The point I'm trying to make is that Bards using songs is not going to hurt it's DPS THAT MUCH like people think it does.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    HecatesLover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    25
    Character
    Hecate Arcana
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    The only time healers should be running out of mana is during Titan and Coil. If you need it for anything else then they are being careless with their mana or your group is undergeared. If you are going into Titan/Coil with a Bard too selfish to mana song then replacing them shouldn't be an issue.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    PessimiStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    266
    Character
    Ippon Seionage
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 63
    Quote Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64 View Post
    The other jobs don't have abilities that drop DPS by 20%. The point I'm trying to make is that Bards using songs is not going to hurt it's DPS THAT MUCH like people think it does.
    It lowers DPS by 20% while it's up. I don't recall the uptime off the top of my head, but I want to say it's around 1/3 or so, which means singing is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 6-7% DPS decrease, which is not insignificant.

    To be clear, I'm not advocating Bards not using songs when appropriate, I'm just agreeing that they are a not-insignificant DPS hit.
    (1)
    Last edited by PessimiStick; 09-18-2013 at 06:10 AM. Reason: Clarity

  8. #8
    Player
    Coast2Coast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Space Ghost
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Well yea but lets say someone dies because a bard didnt play that song the party needed. It could be anyone. Now youve lost dps from an entire player and thats worth more than your puny 20%. My point is, theres always a good time to a spell. Adjust to the situation.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    NintenPyjak64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,187
    Character
    Evercy Warclan
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    It lowers DPS by 20% while it's up. I don't recall the uptime off the top of my head, but I want to say it's around 1/3 or so, which means singing is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 6-7% DPS decrease, which is not insignificant.
    It is insignificant. Like I said I still can pull top DPS if not very top, and my FC members are not idiots with their DPS rotations. It's all about placement and rotation and I've done nothing but practice my bard rotation in most level 50 content for a few weeks. If my Healers need to spam AoEs (Garuda as an example), I'll gladly give them songs if it means we all survive (hell I even give myself TP song if I need it since I spam AoEs during the plume stages), and I'll still DPS my heart out when my DPS matters
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Bardo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    296
    Character
    Bardo Phor
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancil_Ryner View Post
    Blm suffers when it had to move around. Bard suffers from nothing.
    I hate to rain on your parade, but I would hardly call the lack of a DD limit break "nothing".
    Have you tried to run Demon Wall or Ifrit (Hardmode) with only Bard DD?
    Not wholly impossible, but without a doubt harder than bringing other DD's that can limit break.
    (3)

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