Bard readjustment

[Bardo]

Blm suffers when it had to move around. Bard suffers from nothing.

I hate to rain on your parade, but I would hardly call the lack of a DD limit break "nothing".
Have you tried to run Demon Wall or Ifrit (Hardmode) with only Bard DD?
Not wholly impossible, but without a doubt harder than bringing other DD's that can limit break.

[Thotor]

The only time healers should be running out of mana is during Titan and Coil. If you need it for anything else then they are being careless with their mana or your group is undergeared. If you are going into Titan/Coil with a Bard too selfish to mana song then replacing them shouldn't be an issue.

Exactly there is no need for mana song until Titan. People should stop playing bad.
On the other hand, bards should know they only need to play mana songs for like 10-20 seconds maximum. Only WHM requires mana anyway.

I hate to rain on your parade, but I would hardly call the lack of a DD limit break "nothing".
Have you tried to run Demon Wall or Ifrit (Hardmode) with only Bard DD?
Not wholly impossible, but without a doubt harder than bringing other DD's that can limit break.

On the contrary , 2 bard goes faster. I always had the least problem running 2 bard because you don't need limit break compared to other class

Again I don't want to use the word nerf, but bards' damage needs to be lowered and songs need to have their debuff removed.

I strongly agree.
Bards has too much advantage. Strong DPS, high burst, no penalty for moving and Support skill (songs).
While the other class can come close to Bard DPS, they do not provide any group utility.

There is only 2 option : add group buff on other class or reduce bard dps.

[Kevee]

Exactly there is no need for mana song until Titan. People should stop playing bad.
On the other hand, bards should know they only need to play mana songs for like 10-20 seconds maximum. Only WHM requires mana anyway.

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

[savant07]

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

I didn't know summoners actually had issues with MP...I always thought they had ways to maintain unlimited MP.

[Kevee]

I didn't know summoners actually had issues with MP...I always thought they had ways to maintain unlimited MP.

If we want to sustain our max DPS(AKA using Thunder, Shadow Flare, and Fester) then we need mana after ~3-4 minutes or so. It gets worse if you need to battle rez, or need to AoE.

We can have "unlimited" mana but it severely lowers our DPS.

[Alkalord]

We can have "unlimited" mana but it severely lowers our DPS.

Sounds like the same thing when bards play certain songs...

[Kevee]

Sounds like the same thing when bards play certain songs...

-Song isn't only for us.

-Our single target turns into AoE as needed.

-It doesn't severely drop your DPS as much as you think it does, as long as you apply your DoTs properly. Cutting out 3 attacks(240, 250, and 300 potency) and replacing the 240, 250, with 80, and 300 with 150 is pretty big.

-We are the battle rezzers when needed.

-You have the skills, use them.

[Thotor]

FYI SMN runs out of MP pretty fast in sustained pulls/AoE situations. Needing to constantly use thunder on different targets drain our MP, and to sustain our rotation of not having to use Energy Drain we need the mana song. Especially if we need to b-rez, or fail at managing our pet and need to re-summon it.

Our SMN used to have problem until he realized he was using the wrong filler for rotation. I don't remember what the mistake was but since then he never had mana issues.
Rez and pet resummon does however drain mana (that's true for healers as well) but I count those as special situation.

[Kevee]

Our SMN used to have problem until he realized he was using the wrong filler for rotation. I don't remember what the mistake was but since then he never had mana issues.
Rez and pet resummon does however drain mana (that's true for healers as well) but I count those as special situation.

He's probably not keeping Thunder/Shadow Flare up like he does with Bio/Miasma/Bio II, and not using Miasma II during Contagion rotation.

[Chocob0charmer]

Have you tried to run Demon Wall or Ifrit (Hardmode) with only Bard DD?
Not wholly impossible, but without a doubt harder than bringing other DD's that can limit break.

It's definitely a challenge, for anyone interested I find these two strats helpful

1. Have tank hold both gnats in top right corner (moving to the mid for poison) and have brds focus on dpsing wall. If done right the gnats aoe's wont hit the bards standing on the edge of the static poison behind them.
Only snag is the tank holding hate off the whm.

If that's the case just do this

2. Have tank hold only right gnat and have the better of your two bards stand against the wall and kill the gnat (other bard helps kill it too). Since you cant stun the bards gnat you should have the "tanking" bard run out of range for the paralysis move.

After the first gnats dead, switch to the second and then the wall.

To do this you're gonna need solid brd's but it works