Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[CelestiCer]

Compilation of every thread poster I could find
voicing concerns/frustrations etc with 6.1 SAM changes.
Dev's asked for feedback? we gave it


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Threads before 6.1 Kaiten removal
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04-01-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

I really like the feel of using this ability, even if there isn't much of a decision to be made about when to use it. There are other targets for ability bloat, please just find some other way.

04-01-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...24-6.1-Samurai

It's not just simplification at this point, we're losing job identity. Why even bother having separate jobs?
By 7.0 the only job with any identity remaining is going to be Black Mage, we're already seeing it now. We know at least 1 dev plays Black Mage. Can't say the same for most other jobs. Please tell us this is an April Fool's joke.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ISSATSU-KAITEN

Please for the love of all that is holy. Who thought of this? Kaiten is a really fun, rewarding oGCD to use. It is the only separator from mindless gauge dump on Hissatsu: Shinten.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

I don't normally make posts of the forum but because this is really personal I can't help but get involved somehow. I'm a long time fan of samurai, if it weren't for my interest in sage and a few other jobs it would certainly be my main job. However, if kaiten gets removed I don't think I will ever return to the job. It won't be satisfying anymore.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oval-of-Kaiten.

Hello, I set up my account here simply because I wanted to add my voice expressing dissatisfaction with the upcoming removal of Kaiten.

04-03-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lete-Kenki-lol

With Kaiten's removal, kenki offers nothing but a resource you dump on Shinten (there is the AOE and Hissatu abilities but they don't change anything).

04-03-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Kaiten-removal

Kaiten was one of the skills that made me fall in love with SAM as soon as I tried it, alongside Midare Setsugekka that made me like it from level 50. / Just... please, don't remove this.

04-04-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oat-on-Samurai

All in all, I am strictly examining whether or not Kaiten contributes to action bloat and thus needs to be removed, and my conclusion is that it does not, nor will its removal reasonably alleviate the non-existant notion of action bloat on Samurai.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...43-Keep-Kaiten

I'm a samurai main - I've played all the jobs, and samurai is my favorite - by far - and not for the aesthetic, but for the gameplay. I've never even visited the forums previously, but this change is so egregious that I felt compelled to speak out..

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-KAITEN

There are already a plethora of posts like mine, but I figured, if I don't voice my opinion in any way, I don't have a right to complain afterwards.
As the title already says, I don't think that removing Hissatsu: Kaiten is a good idea - for many reasons.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

Kaiten is a big part of what makes the kenki interesting. Outside of burst, (which has its kenki supplied by Ikishoten), we now only have one move that uses kenki, so there is almost no strategy. Also, the kaiten animation is very satisfying to use before big hits. Keep the crit changes, but revert the kaiten removal.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Kaiten-debate

I made an account specifically to throw in my support for keeping Kaiten on SAM. / Simplifying jobs does NOT make them more interesting, it makes them boring. Please keep Kaiten in the game.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Samurai-Change

So uh... I JUST mastered Samurai and just learned when to apply Hissatsu Kaiten. The fact it's getting removed in 6.1 just 'coz of button bloats? This cat girl is unhappy. Devs... what are you guys doing? D: Hissatsu Kaiten is NOT that hard to apply mid battle! Please don't remove it. It's satisfying to use. .

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

I literally made a Forum account for the first time in all my 6 years of playing just to add to the many pleading requests for this. Please.
Kaiten is such a fun and core part of SAM gameplay, and it has a lovely wind-up animation that syncs perfectly with Iaijutsu. Please don't ruin SAM.

04-07-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/.....with-Love%29

In short, I loved how impactful and how Kaiten added complexity to my abilities. To augment what I already have with the fancy blade work with that *whirr whirr whirr* just felt so good. Then.......the 6.1 Live letter happen. I am gonna be real....I hate shinten.

04-07-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Samurai-Alone

...once we remove Kaiten, kenki turns purely into a all you can Shinten buffet.
Tl;dr Kaiten is the only complexity current SAM has, and will have poor synergy with jobs that give crit rate up if it has guaranteed crits.

04-08-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

"Oh but devs like megathreads more." You know what's cooler then a megathread? Not ruining jobs. Revert it. If the devs follow through on removing Kaiten, the only thing it proves to us, is that the player experience doesn't matter, and that they not only don't care about player feedback, but that their job design team is incredibly out of touch.

04-08-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...emoving-Kaiten

To whom it may concern, please, I implore you, please, do not remove Kaiten. There are so many other ways to fix this problem over removing Kaiten. Please, I now beg of you, don't remove Kaiten.

04-10-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

I just want to show my support to the Samurai players out there and share my voice as i do not wish to see Hissatsu: Kaiten be removed for a reason that feels either quite unnessecary or like it is simply removed from a button bloat problem that was caused by the new skills added in the Endwalker Expansion.

04-10-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...iten-Who-Asked

Literally who? Who asked for this in either the NA or JP communities? Name a single person, a single basis for justifying the removal of such an iconic ability.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rai-AoE-Damage

We'll see tomorrow once everything goes live, but it appears the devs forgot to give Tenka Goken and Kaeshi: Goken the auto-crits they should get? Also, not sure why they made the effort to nerf the potency on Kaeshi: Goken, but not give it the auto-crit. I mean, that's why Midare, Ogi, and their Kaeshi got potency nerfs. But Kaeshi: Goken got nerfed without a corresponding buff. This, to me, is clearly an oversight.

[CelestiCer]

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After 6.1, Kaiten removed. Backlash
=======================

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ghts-on-Kaiten.

The thing about Kaiten is not just that it's a core skill that boosts other skills, but rather what it provided in terms of class complexity /
TL;DR Kaiten is not bloat and makes a SAM player learn meter management skills.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ase-for-Kaiten

understand why the devs removed Kaiten... it's not really different than the old Heavensward DRK Dark Arts spam. But as that job never fully recovered from DA's removal in terms of feel and flow and soul (IMO), so too will Samurai suffer from losing Kaiten. Not necessarily because of job performance number-wise (although, there's a case for that, too), but rather because of it's feel and flow and soul.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rent-iteration

TLDR: Consistency good. Method bad. [If you MUST remove Kaiten, the skill animation should replace Hagakure. Redistribute the potency to finishers.] I take this back. Not even that would change how awful it feels to play right now. Bring Kaiten back. Revert to 6.08 Samurai. Still not asking for a buff.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ggestions-only

Hey everyone. Like many others, I'm disapointed with the changes that 6.1 brings to our beloved SAM. 1 - Bring Kaiten back. / 2 - Bring old potencys back.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...sion-feels-bad.

I am sadly switching to Monk, maybe reaper this patch. Hopefully these changes are reverted ASAP. I am POSITIVE you will see a considerable reduction of sam players compared to the great 6.0 iteration of the job.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...murai-feedback

But what would I and probably many others want over all of this?
Reverting back to how our Samurai was Pre-6.1

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...459090-SAM-6.1

I'm quite disappointed by the changes that SE has made to SAM.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-after-playing

Kaiten's removal has made tracking Kenki unnecessary,...

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ack-to-Pre-6.1

Revert SAM back to Pre-6.1

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...se-revert-asap

title, it feels like crap to play now, not having kaiten feels empty while playing, low numbers on big moves feels shit. i hate it and wont be playing it unless they change it back.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Samurai-Nerf

I got to say, the new changes to Samurai honestly feels very horrific comparing to how it was before.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-6.1-Iteration

I'll probably tough it out and stay on SAM for one more week to finish up my raid team's farming of P4S. But my weapon coffers will not be going to SAM, but rather Reaper, the only job that has any trace of the things I liked about Samurai (active meter management, thrilling presentation, and clearly defined filler and burst phases), and I don't see myself staying on this class for the entirety of 6.1 if it is going to stay in this state. SAM was a lot of "firsts" for me in FFXIV - my first job to beat Extreme trials, Savages and Ultimates with, my first job I felt like I was legitimately good at, the first job I did an EX trial for a glam weapon for, and it is the job I associate with my WoL in their MSQ role. It greatly saddens me that all of the great content 6.1 has added will not be on that list.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ly-implemented

I would strongly encourage the dev team to consider returning Kaiten and returning the damage emphasis to the finishers and burst of Samurai. It will lose that consistency yes, but I would rather keep the inconsistent but fun identity than lose it. The auto crits can stay or go, I may warm up to them yet. But Kaiten's removal is a detriment and wound to Samurai's otherwise solid history.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-been-delayed

TL;DR: 6.1 changes were communicated poorly. Samurai changes should have been delayed until 6.15 at the earliest or preferably 6.2 when all the large changes are planned.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...458990-6.1-SAM

The new Samurai gameplay just feels awful, please consider fully reverting the changes and instead slightly lowering Midare's total damage contribution to SAM's dps.

4-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...revert-asap%29

I was against these changes from the start, but after actually trying them out in-game, it actually feels way worse than I ever imagined.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-Changes

Kaiten removal: By totally removing it you took off a job's identity and diversity in his gauge usage, which will make the job so worse and boring to play.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Wasn-t-Broken

Samurai lost it's soul, the flare, the big numbers, that's what drew people (and me) to the job. / Literally no one asked for this, we all liked pressing kaiten and then iaijutsu. It made us feel powerful and it was satisfying. Now I constantly feel like I'm playing a level 50 class sync. Not to mention the severe potency nerf of midare, ogi, and kaeshi, it almost feels like a job assassination by someone on the dev team.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...that-6.1-patch

This job is a very important part of what made me love FF14. I never post anything on forums but here I see it as a duty to support all the SAM players that we are here. / Why ? Samurai was good how it was, the gameplay felt satisfying enough and the damages where good as well I dont really get why it needed to be flaten like that.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...game-for-me%21

(EDIT)Sorry for editing my previous post, but I have had enough time to test out the new SAM and it's honestly not all bad. (despite my previous rant about how much I hated the new version)

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...is-now-optimal.

The absolute irony here being they removed kaiten for "action bloat" without addressing the kenki bloat we were going to have. So now we're just replacing it with more shinten spam and the left over kenki from the opener now makes weaving gyoten into the opener optimal.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-are-terrible

Having no Kaiten feels weird, and I have to press Shinten to spend Kenki too often. Also, Tenka Goken was just fine as a cone.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...uins-new-patch

How am I suppose to enjoy the patch when my favorite job is gutted like this? This is ridiculous. I love kaiten. Bring it back asap.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...murai-feedback

Not having kaiten anymore feels wrong I might be able to get used to it but as of now it feels weird. What I like about the update is potency was added to the core combo. Changes aside from Kaiten I would like to see would be reducing Hissatsu: senei's recast for kenki management and add some more potency to Kaeshi: Setsugekka and Kaeshi: Namikiri

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...k-Remove-Kenki

SE is heading this way already in job development. Whilst you're at it, remove all combos but Hazake, Jinpu, Gekko, that all add to the Sen gauge. You must figure most of the players are smooth brain sub-humans incapable of complex thought, so this is the progressive next step. Also, for patch 7.0, just delete all dps but BLM.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-are-not-good

Yes, it's another post about disliking 6.1 Sam changes. I've literally never posted on these forums before but the changes made to the class I main has prompted me to change that.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eel-of-Samurai

What I'm most upset about is how the "game feel" of Samurai feels terrible post-Kaiten removal and how it ruins the job fantasy of Samurai.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...els-like-trash

I've never felt compelled to make a forum post. I set up my account specifically for this. Kaiten was a core part of SAM, but I decided I'd give it a shot. I ran the new dungeon and an experts. It feels like trash. It isn't satisfying.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...patch%286.1%29

...for the first time since it release I'm quitting SAM and going back to MNK. SE please listen to the players, you made a mistake and change something that wasn't broken, and now you need to revert the changes.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-like-crap-now.

Removing an ability core to the identity of Samurai would feel like crap though. What the heck were they thinking? It's incompetence on the same level as removing Hagakure back in Shadowbringers.
Dunno how they manage to miss so hard with a job as simple as Samurai.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Samurai-Thread

Hey all, I don't post on the forums (pls be nice), but I've been reading and I wanted to add to the mass of voices talking about the Samurai changes, since I, as with many SAM players, don't like it very much and I want squenix to know how players like me feel. Tl;Dr below.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ssatsu-Seppuku

6.1 took what was previously my favorite job by far and made it completely unenjoyable.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rt-SAM-changes.

Please revert SAM to 6.0 SE. Thank you.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...am-changes-lol

HOWEVER, 12th of April effectively marked the death of the job’s feel, in my opinion. / What I’m more troubled by is it seems this is part of some larger rework which is fine but why do we get some half assed 25% done reworks in the retail version.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...urai-Complaint

i'm not gonna make a huge paragraph of everything that is wrong with the samurai changes i just wanted to make a fourm complaint the first time ever. but i can say for certain my complaints seems to be the general public complaint the job feels bad. the kenki gauge is so pointless. might as well call it Shinten gauge. the damage is whatever but it does feel worse then it was. i think they forgot what made samurai a samurai. ill be honest i did not think getting rid of one ability would make me resent it so much. even my good friend may put the katana down. thats not good.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...on-the-changes.

Overall, as someone who likes to give things a try before I give my opinion, I find that the removal of Kaiten was a big mistake. Having guaranteed crits in the absence of Kaiten isn't worh it overall. SAM just doesn't feel the same. If they wanted to make the job less busy, taking away Kaiten wasn't it. Please bring it back.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...kaiten-removal

Yup, title says it all. I created this account after the announcement about the Kaiten removal. Said I was against it, we were told to wait and try it out, which I did. And then to provide feedback, which I will.
Well first of all, I think it's just terrible. Now before anyone says I haven't tried it enough. I ran savage with it, the new extreme, the alliance raid, a few dungeons, hit on a dummy for 30 minutes. I DID try it.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...am-impressions

I would like to start by stating that I do agree with the intent behind the changes made to Samurai in 6.1 however... I feel the way their intentions were implemented has turned out to be less than ideal. Let's breakdown the reasons why. First the Kaiten removal...

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...er-SAM-post%29

I'm seeing a lot of casuals who are supportive of the Kaiten removal making the same vapid statements about how Kenki didn't mean anything, as it was required to be pressed before every iajutsu anyways. And they reduce the arguments most are making as stuff that only concerns hardcore players (eg. kenki gauge dumb-ification). In this, they're completely missing the point to why Kaiten is so important, to BOTH casuals AND hardcore players.
/ It's not bloat, it's the core of the job.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ng-Back-Kaiten

I played through the 6.1 MSQ Dungeon as Samurai and it felt weird and wrong, the removal of Kaiten was a misguided decision because it cuts too deep into the aspect of Kenki Management and the Understanding of how to utilize Kenki in given Situations, stating "Button Bloat" must be coming from someone who may never played Samurai

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-Changes

after my 8 years of playing this game I have never felt so disrespected for my time and for the effort I've put into mastering something / I really, really do not want to unsub. I have made countless friends, including my wife playing this game as well as going to 3 fan fests, but I can't continue to condone this disregard for your experienced players. You are walking the exact same path that lead the exodus of wow and it's truly painful to witness.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...1-SAM-Thoughts

It's like I'm eating dry, unseasoned chicken. Please add the flavor back.

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ter-a-few-days

It's me again. I'm not just gonna drop this job I love because of Kaiten. My motivation to play it has in fact been shot several times in the chest, but 'life support' is technically still alive.

4-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Perspective.

I'm just really sad that Samurai feels bad to play now. I may just start playing other classes that feel better, but I don't want to. I really hope that my voice means something. Fennas

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...re-Interesting

Kind of just a fun idea to make samurai kenki gauge more interactive, especially since they removed kaiten.

4-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Class-Identity

Release of 6.1, Samurai is Hollow. Kenki meter is "Shinten Meter", with Senei/Guren once every 2 minutes. It's as if there is no seasoning to my meat, or if you asked for a Cheeseburger, and there was no cheese. The flavor is missing. Kaiten was the Class flavor, it was the cheese to the burger.

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-our-Kaiten%21

Im a Samurai main and I want Kaiten back. I feel so empty without it. I personally don't care about numbers, but I do care about how a job plays. Being able to manage your Kenki gauge was really engaging and fun!

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...uren-and-Senei

Sorry for the baity title, just want to draw attention to a better solution than the merging of Senei and Guren. In image form!

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...tead-of-Kaiten

My hot take:
Tsubame-Gaeshi should have been dropped over Kaiten.
They both serve similar functions. One is used to enhance your Iaijutsu beforehand, the other is used to enhance your Iaijutsu afterward.
However, what they actually represent to the job are as different as night and day. Or should I say winter and summer.

[CelestiCer]

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...he-SAM-changes.

Hello Mr Square enix. SAM still feels bad to play, please revert the changes asap. Thank you

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oposed-changes.

Hissatsu: KaitenI've never considered this skill to be bloat. Aside from being a satisfying animation, it was also one of the few things that made conscious Kenki Gauge management an aspect of Samurai. Bring it back, please.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-feels-clunky

I wanted to play Samurai in the new ultimate but it feels strictly worse now. Please bring kaiten back, or give us an alternative kenki spender other than shinten.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-to-6.08

All imma say this is not the class I loved since it’s released it’s not even A shell of its former self without Kaiten.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03-Sam-changes

I just feel a satisfying button press, kaiten, is gone and I cant do that any longer, and it takes a lot away from the joy I had pressing iaijutsus.

04-16-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...her-Sam-Thread

Another day of asking for 6.1 SAM changes to be reverted. Also some love to ninjas/bards that have also been hit during this. A lot of good came from 6.1, don't let these awful changes for a few classes drive some players away from them

04-16-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-changes

Removing kaiten was a mind-numbingly stupid decision. The reasoning we got was "ability clutter" which makes absolutely 0 sense.

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...E-doesn-t-care

As a lot of us I wrote a thread few days ago regarding samurai changes (the worst that could've happened). I just wanted to know if SE is just ignoring us hard right now and not respecting anybody or if I missed an official answer ? First they are throwing my samurai down the toilets and now being silent about it while they ruined a big part of the game ?

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...i-PvE-Feedback

Automatic Critical Hits mean absolutely nothing if the attack itself does not have the potency to back it up.
Midare and Ogi hit like soggy spaghetti. The job doesn't feel fun. Please, revert the changes. Hell, just give our hits way more potency.

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ssion-Response

The removal of Kaiten has many confused and others thankful, it makes the job less involved to play albiet minorly, however this has a drastic impact on job feel.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-button-bloat

It's still on my hot bar. I still press it before doing an Iaijutsu.
Everyone still presses it. Every time before an iaijutsu. Yes. In 6.1
Every SAM in the world still press the same amount of buttons. Nothing's changed.
Roll back the changes.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-your-screw-up

As per title.
Is the flood of "Revert samurai posts" not enough?
You want feedback. We've given it loud and clear. What more do you want? We don't want to hear your spins. We don't want alternatives. JUST REVERT IT.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...still-not-good

I implore to the dev team once again, please reapply Kaiten. And while you're considering it, please retweak numbers to make Setsugekkas and Namikiris feel satisfying again. I understand the desire for consistency in damage, but that inconsistency is part of what makes Samurai very satisfying to play. And if you're wanting to lower our button count, there's a few redundant aoe buttons with single-target variants that could be combined into one button. Or turning Ikishoten into Namikiri after initial use. There's much better options than what was put into motion this patch.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/460667-My-thoughts-on-6.1-SAM-changes-%28spoiler-I-don-t-like-them%29

In short the guaranteed crits are double blow to our fun in the job by normalizing the big numbers and by reducing the impact of proper gearing and melding.I will admit that not everything done to SAM was bad. I personally like the AOE changes, and the Meikyo Shisui and Third Eye changes are nice QoL changes, and I hope they get kept. But the other changes should be reverted at the earliest opportunity.

04-20-2022 https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-6.1-changes

And then 6.1 happened, and the last bit of thought that went into Kenki management has disappeared. Because Ikitoshen gives us enough Kenki for Senei anyway, we don't have to track Kenki. We don't really have to track much really. The self-buffs are so easy to maintain now you have to try to get rid of them. We still have our dot, thats good. We have Tsubame-gaeishi... I'm not that big a fan of Tsubame-gaeshi. Wirth 6.1, we lost Kenki, we lost our mechanic, we lost so much of what we loved about Samurai, and I have this glamour chest full of katanas I don't know what to do with... And I never asked for that. I never wanted that. I have never seen a Samurai complain about Kenki or Kaiten.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ntity-is-gone.

Normally these would sound like asinine and outlandish questions to ask, but given how these changes were touted as improvements for the job, I can't help but wonder if any of it was actually tested by people who like SAM to begin with. It reads more like someone completely unfamiliar with the job is trying to turn it into something else. Whatever that job is, please add it in 7.0 rather than dismantling this one. We liked SAM the way it was.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-6.2-Endwalker

The change to SAM was unacceptable this 6.1 patch and “requires” to be reverted. As of this moment I did quit SAM and threw all my BiS gear and switched to NIN for the upcoming Ultimate. And you gave me barely any time to switch my job.

Message to dev Team:
高難易度コンテントの前にジョブをこんなに変えるな！こっちは短時間で忍者の装備を集め絶シリーズの準備をしないといけないんです。
今後どの方向にFF１４は向かっていますか？召喚士のあとは侍あとどのジョブを殺すのですか？次は竜騎士と噂を耳にしていらっしゃるのですが。簡単だからいいて言うわけではないのです。なんのために色んなジョブがあると思っていらっしゃるのですか？

APMを下げたいためにこの変更をしたが：APMはほとんど変わらず、その上お客様を怒らせ, なにをしたいんですか？

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...l-enthusiastic

Summary
The feel and flow of the gameplay is what makes samurai the job it is. It can be argued that there are unnecessary actions required to achieve the desired end result, but being consistent and mastery of such complexity are what gives me joy playing samurai.

I hope SE you can reconsider the changes you have made to samurai in the current iteration and restore the fantasy, feel and flow of the job once more.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...I-can-t-do-it.

I usually lurk the forums and scroll posts every now and again, however I've decided to finally make an account just to give the devs their feedback they asked for. I've played the game for around 18,000 hours and I'm worried about the direction the game is taking so I guess it's time to start trying to speak up. / SAM changes feel bad, revert all of them and please stop stripping job identity from the game.
Thanks!

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-6.1-changes

I've felt a little adrift in the game, trying to find another job to click with. Was hoping I could join the edgelord gang as a Reaper, but I still find myself longing for my katana. Maybe tanking as a Gunbreaker will give me that new rush. Maybe I'll heal as a Sage and join the healer forum in protesting for a more involved dps toolkit. Maybe I need the fast GCDs as a Monk. I'm still searching for something that feels missing after I lost Samurai. But until we know the future of Samurai, I will post in protest!

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-Adjustments

The Samurai changes in 6.1 have made me not want to play the job.
I don't think I've ever posted in the official forums before, but the devs asked for feedback and I'd like to add my voice to the cacophony. In short, I am very unhappy with the removal of Hissatsu: Kaiten and some of the other changes in 6.1. / Hopefully that's useful feedback. I'm a relatively casual player who's been with the game since about 2.2ish, I don't step much further than Extremes due to not having the groups to play with. I like to have one job from each role to main, and samurai was my main melee dps. As it is now, I don't think I have a main melee dps any more.

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...low-of-the-job

...i'm honestly so sad about this change that it's actually just killing my love for FFXIV in general now. Please put Kaiten back, please stop dumbing down jobs and please stop messing with things that no one is complaining about (i'm assuming no one had complained about kaiten pre-6.1, absolute madness if they had!) Instead, please invest the time into making us more glams ;D

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...78#post5920378

SAM has been my main since I started plying FFXIV.
The random removal of Kaiten has completely changed the flow of the job and it’s just not fun to play anymore :/ Bring it back please thanks o/

04-23-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nges-6.1-again

(Eng is not my native language, sorry for mistakes)
Nothing new, the changes are just unaceptable,

Dev faces a shitstorm during a LL and so many people are complaining or switch to another job so MAYBE we can agree there is a problem here.
This can be really easily fixed: revert it. Now.

Get this changes 2 weeks before ultimate is quite embarrassing, nerfing and job and kill the fun that much just leads people to switch to another jobs, enjoy if you don't have bis on this job.

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lancing./page2

I want to speak to job balancing team. Are u in captivity of your greedy superiors? If so give us a sign, because changes of classes is simply not smart. Man, who loves this game cannot think off nonsense, which you did to Samurais in 6.1. No one asked you about it and its saying a lot about your competence. I'm so angry, i can't find words for this changes. And now you ignoring my brothers and sisters Samurais for 2 week, pretending you don't see our suffering. I hope you will find strength inside you to change the direction of job balancing to a different path, wich will lead to receiving more fun from playing and learning a job. Im sorry for being rude, but it's what i feel, and i can't silence myself.

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...us-back-kaiten

Just making another useless post on how I hate the samurai job changes ad would like my kaiten back. Thank you. #bringbackkaiten #kaitenforthekaitenless #justiceforkaiten

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...i-as-requested

I never visit forums, I created an account solely due to how much the Samurai changes bothered me. Even my desire to play the game at all. Before the patch, I was playing every chance I got, doing the various roulette's multiple times a day just for the fun of it, and was very excited for Aglaia.
Throughout Endwalker, I had discussed with my friends how and why I felt Samurai was the most well designed class in the game, feeling nearly flawless. / After the changes in this patch, I do not enjoy the class, that I used to consider near perfect, at all. It feels gutted, empty, slow and disconnected

4-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ng-Sam-in-6.11

I know I'm probably on copium but what are the odds that SE realize their mistake and revert Sam to its former glory in the patch today? :')

[CelestiCer]

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6.1 + 6.2 Feedback Ignored by Devs and Yoshi
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Now 150+ Samurai threads and over 10+ youtube video's with Samurai feedback and satire as well as the Japanese forums going over 200+ pages of negative feedback, they refused to respond. We were instructed to go to the forums to give feedback while SE Dev's and Yoshi ignored what they requested. Followed with the empty promise of 6.1 where they would explain the changes in future patch-notes. That future patch is the now of 6.2 where the negative changes were not explained.


7-09-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...re-job-updates

I’m wondering if the continued silence implies a predetermined outcome regardless of any possible requested feedback, or at least has the appearance of it, because this is a lengthy situation that isn’t consistent with times where requested changes were quickly agreed with by developers, like with newer Black Mage nerfs for competitive content.

Getting back to Final Fantasy, the lack of any official response at this point makes me assume that they neither want nor plan to add Kaiten back, and at worst, asking for requested feedback that to this day hasn’t been met with any visible response (not even a forum reply from one developer) for months has the possible appearance of only being done for perpetuating the image that the team always (not only sometimes) listen to players when there’s a loud outcry, not to actually offer a realistic possibility of backpedaling; I sincerely hope the latter isn’t the intention, but it certainly can come across that way for situations with distrust between players and developers, such as with the Kaiten removal, the still-limited healer DPS variety, and more.

7-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lanned-for-6.2

Welp, that's the end of that:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/467713

The context here is super important, it means they don't give a shit how we feel. This is the "you think you want it but you don't" moment for XIV.

Consider my sub cancelled. What a god damn shame.

8-23-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...8Kaiten-6.2%29

This will be my second and final post about this. Dev team, you had your chance. There was hope, you could have gone back but no. What really sucks is that I just got off of a long work day and came home to read the patch notes, and now I'm gonna be in a really bad mood for the rest of the day and tomorrow. No, I'm not trying to be hateful, I am a worried fan and care A LOT about this game and want it to succeed and be the best it can be. I want the devs to read this and take this seriously. I am severely disappointed.

8-23-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...17-SAM-is-dead

Pour one out, Square pulled the plug

8-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...be-aknowledged

So here we are, 6.2 dropped, samurai remain unchanged. Worse than that, nothing has been said or aknowledged by the devs regarding the unmissable feedback we gave, after they requested it.

I've been playing wow since Mist of Pandaria (2012), and what's happening here right now just reminds me too much of the beginning of wow's gameplay downfall. (dumbing down classes by removing skills, not listening to the playerbase)

Moreover, joining FF a year ago, I had heared plenty of times that Sqeenix devs were actualy listening to the community.

So I'll speak again, not because I find delight in whining, but because I care, and find comfort in the knowledge that I'm not the only one.

8-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Missing-Change

I was reading the recent patch notes and either it's a bug or Square-Enix forgot to add it, it's Kaiten. If you guys could have a look at that, I think SAMs everywhere would be really appreciative.

8-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...er-Kaiten-post

I joined since the day Kaiten is taken away from sam. So far, I understand that it is not likely that the skill will be added back nor Sam players will get their answers from Yoshi P. Furthermore, with all recent patches, SE just ignore Sam like they are never existed. I started playing this game because of Sam and it will be a hill im willing to die on. It may be annoying to other people but I will keep posing about Kaiten every single patch till there are reactions from them. Sorry about the rant and thanks for reading this

[CelestiCer]

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[CelestiCer]

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[CelestiCer]

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[CelestiCer]

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Samurai/Youtuber Feedback Video links


4-01-2022 - Hatsuka Raigeki - Thoughts on the Patch 6.1 Samurai Changes
4-02-2022 - Misshapen Chair - My Samurai 6.1 Changes Thoughts - Since Everyone Will Want To Know Especially Yoshi-P
4-05-2022 - Alninio - FFXIV - 6.1 NEW Samurai - Kaiten Is REMOVED.. Too Far? - My Thoughts/Reaction - Misshapen
4-06-2022 - Misshapen Chair - I am the FFXIV Villain
4-10-2022 - Trinimmortal - How I feel about the samurai changes in 6.1...
4-11-2022 - Hatsuka Raigeki - FFXIV - Patch 6.1 Samurai Changes | What are you doing Square Enix?
4-11-2022 - SurfiePlays - My THOUGHTS On Samurai's Job 6.1 Changes | FFXIV Patch Notes
4-14-2022 - Ilya Dalamiq - Thoughts On The Samurai Changes | Patch 6.1 - FFXIV Endwalker
4-23-2022 - Trinimmortal - HAS ANYONE FOUND MY KAITEN - FFXIV Patch 6.1
8-04-2022 - Lucy Pyre - 3 FFXIV Jobs to Play if you HATE YOURSELF
8-20-2022 - Xenosys Vex - Xeno Rants About Crit & Direct Hit In Final Fantasy 14
8-25-2022 - Lucy Pyre - 3 FFXIV Jobs to Play if you HATE OTHER PEOPLE

found/linked/posted by " SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep "
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No matter what the reason

- Rather it's Optimized damage
- Rather it's the feel of the Rotation
- Rather it's Samurai identity Aesthetically
- Rather it's gameplay feel and satisfaction
- Rather players were in love with Kaiten

Bottom line is that many players aren't pleased
with the 6.1 SAM changes, PERIOD

[Naoki34]

It's funny that just because you take away a skill, people think it was important to look skilled.

It's a smoothing of gameplay nothing more, but don't change anything, just do it.

I'd rather have fun than spend time complaining on a forum about every gameplay change.