Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[Yrusama]

I agree, Warrior should play as a DD not as a "Main Tank" Back-up Tank sure, but Warrior was the new Paladin in 1.0. Don't do the same thing with 2.0 Please! That's the first thing I'm going to mention in the Beta Forums

Punctuation is your friend!

[Altena]

Just wait until Dark Knight gets released... *snickers* Will we see DRK outdamaging WAR then?

If nothing changes,

Yes. Presuming DRK is the job it should be.

[Altena]

That's part of being a dps, you were doing it right.

The dps mentality of DPS DPS DPS DPS, for some situations it's fine when you "have" to get things done before death comes knocking but dps should always be paying attention to there situation, others situations and their hate control in battle. Sounds to me like your just doing your job right unlike many that seemingly want to burn through content as fast as possible and think we tanks can compensate for their stupidity.

To an extent. If we have used all enmity- tools available to us and we are still flashing red - then the tank has a problem. This forces DPS to hold back, which basically means the tank is holding the party up. It's not about "rushing" through content, it's about winning fights efficiently.

[fusional]

It was the tank of choice for the majority of the game leaving the solely tank class on the sidelines, which is why people still discuss ways to avoid it in the future

then the majority of the game community was smoking some pretty potent stuff, and/or the majority of the game community never actually did anything in the game after... may?

[Reika]

After reading this response I now know that you don't understand what makes rampart a strong hate ability.

The strength in Rampart hate is based on hitting your party members with it. Each party member it hits, gives rampart a larger hate boost. If I could be bothered I would hunt around for the BG post about the specifics, however AoE rampart is a GLD trait. WAR's using Rampart are self-buff only, therefore it generates very little hate. (Less then even a provoke or flash).

I know that part of rampart, but i have observed a fight where the paladin did not actively try to keep agro on garuda after hitting the whole party with rampart and lost agro within 15 seconds, the only real way to keep it after that is with a spirits within combo and then constantly using hate abilities whenever they are ready. Unfortunantly for paladin, they only have 1 that hits multiple targets on 30 seconds, which doesnt produce as much hate as a damaging ability (SC) and one on 60 seconds, which I never witnesed doing what it says it does and need a block (Wardrum). Rampart doesn't do the whole job. Even tho rampart for a warrior only effects itself, it still produces more agro, then antagonize + SC with or without combo will do better than a paladins party rampart and flash on multiple targets, because SW can only hit one thing. And then the warrior is capable if dealing damage to multiple targets in front with their parry counter WS. I have had the fun of tring to test out both paladin and warrior at 50 in natalan, since I really wanted to see if paladin could truely hold the hate against multiples. Rampart didn't save anyone on paladin, and its cooldown is too long to be practical in those situations.

[Altena]

I know that part of rampart, but i have observed a fight where the paladin did not actively try to keep agro on garuda after hitting the whole party with rampart and lost agro within 15 seconds, the only real way to keep it after that is with a spirits within combo. Rampart doesn't do the whole job. Even tho rampart for a warrior only effects itself, it still produces more agro, then antagonize + SC with or without combo will do better than a paladins party rampart and flash, because SW can only hit one thing. I have had the fun of tring to test out both paladin and warrior at 50 in natalan, since I really wanted to see if paladin could truely hold the hate against multiples. Rampart didn't save anyone then.

I have seen many a times in similarity where a fully geared WAR popping Antagonise, Sentinel, Mighty Strikes and SC only holds hate for 1 BLM nuke or 1 DRG combo after sisters pop. Besides, a smart PLD switches target to Suparna and does a SW to drop her faster.

In that situation - Hallowed Ground. The end.

As for Natalan - It is WAR's domain simply because they have AoE damage and have a little more survivability then DRG's, don't need to hold hate for long (mobs die in a few seconds due to BLM's/DRG's). Hence my comment - that isn't really tanking, that is trash burning, (Crowd control / killing an area of mobs) not flat out tanking.

[Starlord]

Punctuation is your friend!

It may not be in the right places but it's there. Grammar *****.

[Reika]

Well this isnt completely true at the end of 1.0. War has more DD designed combos that can generate hate faster when other abilities are on cool down and on the otherside Paladins shield block is massively more powerful then parry could ever be. Also War is alone on an island for all of his abilites, hp gain, and tp generation. PLD had boons form having a whm which is another reason besides guaranteed block that pld fighting Darnus hard was significantly easier.

I would just like war and gld to be adjusted where it could fit in spots that are vacant. For instance war should be able to be fit into that DD roll and while not be equal give something else to the table that drg or mnk cant. Same for Gladiator instead of pld because pld to me is to far gone to not be tank (I mean design not statistically as you can do dd pld and put up numbers far beyond most suspect).

Except they are not lol, there are -clear- winners for different situations.

For same skill and gear, there will be situations I will always pick a WAR over PLD and a PLD over WAR. Never "meh either one I dont care".

You are not understanding what Reika says. A being better than B does not means that B is bad or not effective.
Both can tank effectively in everything, one will have an easier time, the other a harder time, but effectiveness, both have.

No one understood me XD. I simply meant some people in here believe that both can do it all effectively. I don't. I KNOW paladin is the better single target tank and I KNOW warrior is the better multi-target tank.

[Reika]

I have seen many a times in similarity where a fully geared WAR popping Antagonise, Sentinel, Mighty Strikes and SC only holds hate for 1 BLM nuke or 1 DRG combo after sisters pop.

In that situation - Hallowed Ground. The end.

As for Natalan - It is WAR's domain simply because they have AoE damage and have a little more survivability then DRG's, don't need to hold hate for long (mobs die in a few seconds due to BLM's/DRG's). Hence my comment - that isn't really tanking, that is trash burning, (Crowd control / killing an area of mobs) not flat out tanking.

But it is still holding hate against multiple monsters, that is tanking. One Job can, one job cant. The same situation would apply in a raid dungeon. Paladin wouldn't be able to take multiple mobs off of a warrior tank, nor would he need to. Could just cover if the warrior was getting in trouble.

[Altena]

But it is still holding hate against multiple monsters, that is tanking. One Job can, one job cant.

DRG can hold hate on multiple mobs, so can BLM, so are you implying that DRG and BLM are tanking jobs?

Any job with a heavy AOE can pull aggro from a group of mobs.

Trash killing =/= tanking.

*edit* You still haven't made me aware of why PLD is so garbage at tanking Garuda sisters. We have seem to not run into issues with this.