Branching the Jobs

[Shougun]

Yes i agree, it would make sense if PLD had it's own skill set, passives etc. but it doesn't If it did i wouldn't mind if it started at 1. But i dont think the difference between GLD and PLD is THAT big, to lv it from scratch, and have it's own skill set. I mean what would you give PLD that GLD doesn't have, without turning it away from being tank? or giving it to many defensive buffs.

You could always start off the PLD at level 30, and diverge. So you get a set of new abilities, passives and such but since you already sort of know how to play they will let you start higher.

But I can imagine some unique play styles out of PLD not within GLD. Like a theory of cover and protection makes more efficent Paladin. Passive that reduces cooldowns / regen mana whenever X spell or cover is activated on ally, if the paladin covers an ally and the Paladin would have died from cover damage reduce Paladin's hp to 1 and ignore damage for 1 second (with a cooldown on how often the effect would happen) - such stuff like this would make a huge difference in HOW the Paladin would play. In the above Paladins would be stronger when protecting and putting their neck out, while a GLD may be defensive they are not encouraged to stick their neck out.


But I get what you are saying. If the difference between PLD and GLD is almost zero then why make me level all over again and waste my time, I get that. SO yes that shouldn't happen :P - the point would be to make each Job play different then their base classes.

As Yoshida said before jobs are more for party and classes for solo - so these kind of ideas can be built in easier as well if you gave the job a fresh base.

[Elexia]

what's wrong with the armory system?

Everything when weapon = class the job = specialization of said class. Compare it to FFIII/V/TT/XI for example, there's no "restriction" in the number and style of classes because nothing is locked into one=one role like it is here. In XIV, slap on a Sword, bam, you're gladiator, slap on a Rod/Wand, bam you're Thaumaturge/Conjurer. This heavily limits what they can do in terms of jobs and will end up going in a poor direction overall when compared to having the freedom of doing what you want (XI for example) and the jobs are separate entities.


As it stands, you'd have to do:

Sword = Gladiator = Paladin = Dark Knight = Mythic Knight = MagicSwordsman (technically same) = Red Mage = Blue Mage
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Great Sword" or "Rapier", which in turn wouldn't make sense as those are merely two styles of swords, one for greater combat strength and one for fencing primarily.

Staff/Rod/Wand = Conjurer/Thaumaturge = White Mage/Black Mage = Geomancer = Time Mage = Scholar = Summoner = Oracle (insert 12 other mages here..)
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Bells" or "Books (arcanist)" or another style, but everything would still come back to Conjurer/Thaumaturge/Arcanist.

This is how they designed themselves in a corner, they can introduce more classes but all that does is keep them in the same corner in the long run compared to simply introducing them as something separate. The system itself isn't bad, but it's horrible when it comes to a job based FF game with so many options and ways of doing the system that keeping this base system just works against it when you think about it.

It's perfectly fine for those who never played FF games or wanted "absolute freedom".

[Radacci]

Everything when weapon = class the job = specialization of said class. Compare it to FFIII/V/TT/XI for example, there's no "restriction" in the number and style of classes because nothing is locked into one=one role like it is here. In XIV, slap on a Sword, bam, you're gladiator, slap on a Rod/Wand, bam you're Thaumaturge/Conjurer. This heavily limits what they can do in terms of jobs and will end up going in a poor direction overall when compared to having the freedom of doing what you want (XI for example) and the jobs are separate entities.


As it stands, you'd have to do:

Sword = Gladiator = Paladin = Dark Knight = Mythic Knight = MagicSwordsman (technically same) = Red Mage = Blue Mage
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Great Sword" or "Rapier", which in turn wouldn't make sense as those are merely two styles of swords, one for greater combat strength and one for fencing primarily.

Staff/Rod/Wand = Conjurer/Thaumaturge = White Mage/Black Mage = Geomancer = Time Mage = Scholar = Summoner = Oracle (insert 12 other mages here..)
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Bells" or "Books (arcanist)" or another style, but everything would still come back to Conjurer/Thaumaturge/Arcanist.

This is how they designed themselves in a corner, they can introduce more classes but all that does is keep them in the same corner in the long run compared to simply introducing them as something separate. The system itself isn't bad, but it's horrible when it comes to a job based FF game with so many options and ways of doing the system that keeping this base system just works against it when you think about it.

It's perfectly fine for those who never played FF games or wanted "absolute freedom".

Sure it would be nice if you weren't locked like that, but....a lancer with sword seems odd for example
But wouln't they need to make swords with magic boost, in case some BLM wanna use sword instead of wand? etc. otherwise it wouldn't make sense for BLM to use sword anyways.

[Elexia]

Sure it would be nice if you weren't locked like that, but....a lancer with sword seems odd for example
But wouln't they need to make swords with magic boost, in case some BLM wanna use sword instead of wand? etc. otherwise it wouldn't make sense for BLM to use sword anyways.

That's why I exampled those mainly, especially XI. For example BLM could use short swords (rapier), Wands, Clubs and Scythes, however main weapon would be wands and clubs and there are some scythes that are better to use for stats. They aren't melee oriented so obvious you'd choose the best weapon for your stats.

DRG/LNC in a few FFs could actually use swords and lances but obviously they'd go with lances. So you'd have the choice but chances are it's an option better for someone else, i.e RDM would be best off using the swords over the wands or staffs compared to BLM. Having them locked to one line and making it turn you into a class by equipping them is why it's basically not good for additional jobs in the future.

Yoshida's idea was based around FFTTs where say you level WHM to 50, BLM to 40 and Gladiator to 20 you'll unlock RDM which could use swords. Something along those lines is all that's really left in this kind of system. Since simply "multiple specs on one class" can cause a slew of balancing problems sadly. If you've played any other MMOs with say talent trees, how often do you see people going against "the most efficient" one?

The other idea Yoshida had was you choose DRK or PLD, not both but this community fought against the idea and anyone who liked it even though it's literally a huge nod to Cecil given ARR's Fanservice nature. If you want to do raw damage and have some offensive magic (assuming), you'd pick Dark Knight especially if you know you'd never tank thus taking Paladin route wouldn't do much for you. There's a few ways to get around the AS limitation but overall, weapon = class kind of hindered what they can freely do.

[Lady]

Sure it would be nice if you weren't locked like that, but....a lancer with sword seems odd for example
But wouln't they need to make swords with magic boost, in case some BLM wanna use sword instead of wand? etc. otherwise it wouldn't make sense for BLM to use sword anyways.

wasn't BLM af1 a sword in FFXI?

[Firon]

I just want them to add more classes and jobs before they think about adding another job to gla and such, last thing i want this game to do is refuse to add more weapons types like XI. While most jobs could use multi weps most did not use more than one cause thier skill was not high enough with it except war/drk who always used 2 diff weps and i guess sam to some point

[Firon]

wasn't BLM af1 a sword in FFXI?

na it was a wand

[ZakarnRosewood]

Everything when weapon = class the job = specialization of said class. Compare it to FFIII/V/TT/XI for example, there's no "restriction" in the number and style of classes because nothing is locked into one=one role like it is here. In XIV, slap on a Sword, bam, you're gladiator, slap on a Rod/Wand, bam you're Thaumaturge/Conjurer. This heavily limits what they can do in terms of jobs and will end up going in a poor direction overall when compared to having the freedom of doing what you want (XI for example) and the jobs are separate entities.


As it stands, you'd have to do:

Sword = Gladiator = Paladin = Dark Knight = Mythic Knight = MagicSwordsman (technically same) = Red Mage = Blue Mage
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Great Sword" or "Rapier", which in turn wouldn't make sense as those are merely two styles of swords, one for greater combat strength and one for fencing primarily.

Staff/Rod/Wand = Conjurer/Thaumaturge = White Mage/Black Mage = Geomancer = Time Mage = Scholar = Summoner = Oracle (insert 12 other mages here..)
Addendum: You could argue they could add "Bells" or "Books (arcanist)" or another style, but everything would still come back to Conjurer/Thaumaturge/Arcanist.

This is how they designed themselves in a corner, they can introduce more classes but all that does is keep them in the same corner in the long run compared to simply introducing them as something separate. The system itself isn't bad, but it's horrible when it comes to a job based FF game with so many options and ways of doing the system that keeping this base system just works against it when you think about it.

It's perfectly fine for those who never played FF games or wanted "absolute freedom".

That's a narrow view of it I guess. I more thinking about possibilities of class/job/weapon combos
Greatsword
Katana
Dirk
Blowgun
Sai
Nun-chucks
Whips
Hammers
Bells
Books

Then there are the DoL/DoH
Rake
Watering can
Shovel
Net (fishing)
Crook (shepherd)
Whistle/calls

And thats just off the top of my head. But feel free to share your negativity with all of us. Its entertaining.

[Wilan]

You could argue they could add "Great Sword" or "Rapier", which in turn wouldn't make sense as those are merely two styles of swords, one for greater combat strength and one for fencing primarily.

You have never used a sword in your life right?
I do some historical fencing, and believe me, there's a HUGE difference between fighting with a Sword and Shield and Sword and Buckler. The first makes you stable, defensive, slow. The second makes you quick, agile, versatile between attack and defense, lets you use a huge variety of stances.

Changing a sword for a rapier would make the difference even greater. Changing the two of them for a two handed sword means making stronger attacks sacrificing defense and mobility (at least I think, I'll practice with the hand-and-half next march).
It makes totally sense for a Sword and Shield class to be a tank. But change your weapons, and so does your battle style. That's what the Armoury system imitates from life.

[Elexia]

-snip-

Then as stated, everything that comes after that uses those base classes will always use those base classes. feel free to deny it all you want.

wasn't BLM af1 a sword in FFXI?

Nope, you likely confused these two:

You have never used a sword in your life right?

I have actually, we're talking about the implementation of how it's been used in video games, RPGs in particular. Especially if you've played plenty of Square's RPGs. They all don't take real world appeal to it, notice how a lot of RPGs the swinging animation of a rapier or even degen is like using a regular broadsword? You've used swords before, you know how inaccurate and ineffective that actually would be.

Very few games actually treat the differences in style with how they are in real world.

That's what the Armoury system imitates from life.

Then throw in the fact we're getting a book for a weapon, this is why I'm not talking about the real world application lol.