Level Progression/Questing

[Davorok]

For me personally, it all comes down to whether I care about the "World" I am questing in or not.

In WoW I never cared about the overall world or Storylines of the world so all the quests were boring, repetitive and just a means to Level Up. Pretty much every MMORPG I have played has been this way as well. The only exception was FFXI.

Although FFXI's quests were (maddeningly) vague and the rewards were usually a joke, I actually enjoyed doing most of them because I cared about the "World" in general and to some extent the NPC's that the quests revolved around.

This is what I hope ARR's quests are able to achieve. I don't mind killing X creatures for Y reward if I am somehow manipulated into caring about the NPC. If the NPC characters are interesting and possess some level of personality, then I will be more inclined to do their task for them and feel a sense of accomplishment.

But to do this requires a very good writing team who takes the time to intertwine the NPC's stories with each other. I am not necessarily a good writer myself but I will try to give an example:

It's not enough to just have an NPC say, "Oh my child has been snatched by some imps, please rescue her." That is boring.

However, if NPC Tonah says, "I run an orphanage for the children who's parents lost their lives in the Garlean Battle and the destruction caused by Bahamut but we are always in need of supplies of food and clothing. (NPC) Shayla is a Leathercrafter who usually comes once a week with her daughter to donate leather for clothing and crafts for the children. Her daughter is so sweet and quite the little crafter herself. She always sits with the children and shows them how to make crafts with the leather scraps. They always look forward to Shayla's visits but we have not seen them for weeks now and I am worried what has happened. Would you please check on Leathercrafter Shayla and her daughter and see what is the matter? She can usually be found at XX,YY Location in Gridania."

You travel to XX,YY Location and learn from another NPC that "Shayla and her daughter went out hunting Hoglet Boars for their skins. Her daughter, Camille was so excited to go on her 1st hunt but I feel something terrible has happened. They said they were heading towards XX,YY as the boars there are not too large for Camille to handle. Please check on them?"

You travel to XX,YY and find Shayla sobbing because "we were attacked by Imps and Camille was carried off. Please I cannot return home without her. The Imps headed off towards XX,YY. Please find her and bring her back to me"

You find the Imps, kill them, rescue Camille, return to Shayla. She gives you the Boar Skins that they had collected to take to the Orphanage and teaches you how to make them into Boarskin Leather.

You take the Boar Skins and either craft them yourself into Leather or find a Leatherworker to do it, then give the Boarskin Leather to the Orphanage. Tonah is so grateful that Shayla and Camille are ok she offers you a piece of gear that the children have made. One of the orphans is so grateful that Camille is alright that he offers you his fathers Weapon and hopes you can help many more of Eorzea's children with it.

I do not expect every quest to be this involved but if at least some of them are, I will be very happy.

[Allistar]

Why do people want to set up camp somewhere and grind the same monsters for hours on end? Why is this a thing? And why do people want this to be the best/fastest way to level up, as opposed to varied content that will feed you lore and make you explore new areas? What the f**k?

Simple answer...its what we want/like...just the same as you have your wants/likes on how you want to progress in an mmorpg.

[indira]

i actually rather gind at a camp mob after mob then chasing quest to do the same thing little by little.
i dont care what the NPC's have to say.

[Yukiko]

Best summary about all this anti questing thing:

I like how having a solo option means nobody will ever group up ever.

I assume none of those who are against have been invited into alpha yet. I say lets wait till you could test it an then lets meet again!


Something good to mention also for FFXIV:ARR

You don't have to quest solo. That's like saying the leves where solo only, when you could still do them as a party and get good EXP. Just because you did them solo didn't mean they were forced solo.

Who tells you, that you have to be solo to finish a quest? Its neither leves from 1.0 nor quests from 1.0, its something totally new! From that short video, do you expect it was a single leve accomplished? Do you even now how that quest continues? I like it how the NPC talk with you in that short video presentation, because it seems there is something special if you progress. Maybe you have to gain their trust before they entrust you with dangerous missions or secret informations! Remember in Alpha we just see the introduction because max level is 20.


Nowadays players are not good in remembering the past, so it is good to quote PSxpert2011 again:

All I have to say is Final Fantasy VI! Quest were actually Q-U-E-S-T. Also in FFxi, some QUEST were long, like the "Map- for-Crawlers Nest-side Quest".

... You set out on an adventure to accomplish something while taking on challenges along the way. Not really detouring from your missions or over all main adventure(you can accomplish quest when you have the chance, at any time).



People never use their favorite Final Fantasy as reference to this idea. I'm for one,will, as FF1 is the core example but FF6 beefed it up! OMG, the opera had to be the sweetest if not the longest side-quest of the game. It was the most memorable adventure within an adventure and I would be surprised anyone forgetting about it. Though you had to progress through the scene to meet the newest of the adventurers of the group so essentially is was part of the scenario.

Still, there were parts of a story that needed to be done to progress.



Does anyone remember as side quest in Final Fantasy 7 that was memorable, which had nothing to do with the main story but it was fun? How about that tower climb where you fought multiple enemies? Been to a town like Wu Tai lately? Again, I'm stating progression here and not quest grinding.



Please, if I wanted to grind, I'll find an excuse to farm mats and kill the same beast, monster or-what-have-you over and over again....

I know we all want content and it seems like the creative juices @ Square Enix is running dry.

After all, their latest and best work are of FFXIII and XIII-2(also upcoming "Lightning Returns) series. New generation of RPG ladies and gentlemen.

It is a great example to see that Final Fantasy had always been ONE big Quest where you rescue strangers, the princes, the world or something else... While progressing and coming around some little towns or because the path is blocked you had to help townspeople to continue in your mission - you always done Quests and that is a natural way of gaming in every RPG, if you dont like it, then play a shooter or something else!

I have faith in Yoshi-P and his Team, FFXIV:ARR will not become like any other MMORPG around out there!

Edit: Everyone needs sometimes some distraction from the normal doing and if you like to grind then sometimes you need a break with questing, or if you like questing you need sometimes a break and just beat some mobs ...

[Skies]

-snip-

That reminds me of the "Say it with wolf tails" quest chain in 1.0
Actually among my favorites

[NoctisXZ]

I think that the point I was trying to get across was largely missed.. or perhaps just misinterpreted..

The problem with questing being the primary form of level progression in any type of game like this is that for the sake of progression itself most of the quests will ALWAYS be comprised of "Kill X amount" or "Collect Y amount" of quests. There isn't any getting around this fact.. if EVERY quest were to be unique and individual it would take way to much time and there would be a lot less quests around because of it..

Even if games like this moved away from the types of quests we have now and more into those creative types the masses would only complain after awhile anyway.. there is just no pleasing certain types of people no matter what you do for them.

Questing as a form of progression will ALWAYS be a grind. People just don't seem to understand that.. questing will always basically be "Kill X" quests. There is no way around it.

[Biggs]

Have to remember there are a Lot and I mean a LOT of people who hate questing.

Those people should prob stop playing Rpg's altogether then and go play baseball or something. Thats like saying I hate sunshine but love a good beach vacation.

Also, hasn't Yoshi said something like 30 times that you will have multiple ways of leveling. Nm hunts, ect? I just grow tired of people picking and choosing what they hear and read and then reacting to it. Its like taking something out of context and then spending 4 hours talking about it. These people need to all go work for Fox news and get out of our forums

I have no problem with constructive critisism, but most of the responses I read in the Alpha 5 thread were anything but.

[Skies]

I think that the point I was trying to get across was largely missed.. or perhaps just misinterpreted..

The problem with questing being the primary form of level progression in any type of game like this is that for the sake of progression itself most of the quests will ALWAYS be comprised of "Kill X amount" or "Collect Y amount" of quests. There isn't any getting around this fact.. if EVERY quest were to be unique and individual it would take way to much time and there would be a lot less quests around because of it..

Even if games like this moved away from the types of quests we have now and more into those creative types the masses would only complain after awhile anyway.. there is just no pleasing certain types of people no matter what you do for them.

Questing as a form of progression will ALWAYS be a grind. People just don't seem to understand that.. questing will always basically be "Kill X" quests. There is no way around it.

You problem, Noctis, is hanging on the 'primary' somehow being 'only', 'exclusive' or 'single'.
If there are Dungeons, Grinding, FATEs, Leves and Quests, and quests account for 35% of the XP intake, they are still the primary means. But they are hardly the 'only' way. We can only make a judgement come beta and we truly discover what 'primary' means.

[Judge_Xero]

You problem, Noctis, is hanging on the 'primary' somehow being 'only', 'exclusive' or 'single'.
If there are Dungeons, Grinding, FATEs, Leves and Quests, and quests account for 35% of the XP intake, they are still the primary means. But they are hardly the 'only' way. We can only make a judgement come beta and we truly discover what 'primary' means.

Liked -
This is exactly it. Quests will be just that, gather item + hand in item, collect Reward. Fight target, collect Reward.
There isn't much reason to change this, and from the Alpha footage, it's the best option during low levels in order to progress on your character, because it will teach you how to play the game, and you get to explore the world a bit.

Then after the low level, hopefully there is a large variety of things to do to "progress" that way everyone is happy.

Some people like to grind, some people like to quest, some love dungeons, some like to gather or craft, some like solo play, and party etc etc.

Solo Questing in an MMO (especially a Final Fantasy MMO) is a bit ancient, to spend too many resources on.

[Gramul]

Liked -
This is exactly it. Quests will be just that, gather item + hand in item, collect Reward. Fight target, collect Reward.
There isn't much reason to change this.

Except it's the number 1 thing people hate about MMO quests? And I know they can do better?