Level Progression/Questing

[NoctisXZ]

You know.. I've been biting my tongue for a long time when it comes to this topic of discussion, but I've finally had enough.

What is it with people railing against the core mechanics of this genre. More specifically the "cookie cutter.. kill X amount of enemies" type of quests. It's like.. it's like there is no pleasing certain people.

First lets look at Final Fantasy 11's form of level progression, partying. In that game you had to group up with other like minded individuals in order to level up. And while I can agree that this activity was time consuming given the archaic ways of the past.. actually forming a party and everyone gathering at the correct location took a lot of time. But I found that once you actually were together, given you weren't clueless, the actual leveling didn't take as long as some might think.. sure though, it was a bit tedious.

From all the bitching and moaning about questing I would think this would be the way people would want to level.. but alas, we live in age of anti-social behavior. Grouping together in my game?! How absurd! How dare you assume I have the capacity to interact and depend on people to accomplish things in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLEPLAYING GAME. Lets not forget all of the advances that games like World of Warcraft made in terms of actually grouping.. that alone would making leveling together in groups so much easier.

I mean let's just face facts. You can coat the process of questing anyway you want.. sprinkle as much sugar on it as you want. But fundamentally it's all the same.. even the way Guild Wars 2 handles it.. it's all virtually the same.

So what exactly do you people want. Do you want to party together in order to level or to keep questing? Make up your mind.. because guess what, it is ALWAYS going to be the same thing when it comes to questing. I do not care what any developer tells you about there game or how much make-up they put on the process.

There is no miracle pill or radical way to alter the way it works. So unless you want to be able to level by just logging on and each hour you play you gain a level than this is what you're going to get.

Some quests can be fun and exciting and different.. but the second you do more of that kind of quest the same thing is going to happen. It'll just become.. "There is to many sneak into this base and not get caught type of quests". And also.. in order for every single quest to be different and "fun" you would severely handicap the system. Sure you could have 30 different various and interesting quests in your game.. but 200? Never going to happen.. would take way to much time.

I want to make this thread fun though. Voice your opinions on my thoughts. And if you even want to take it a step further.. challenge my ideas, prove me wrong and tell me a way to make it work.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

you forget the others 2 (3?) exp ways
2) dungeons. they give awesome exp judging my alpha mates and need party
3)FATE. Still party
4) exp grind ? Always judging my alpha mates mobs give decent exp, but the other 3 methods are emphasized. Don't mean you can't do it if you like

[Maxthunder]

you forget the others 2 (3?) exp ways
2) dungeons. they give awesome exp judging my alpha mates and need party
3)FATE. Still party
4) exp grind ? Always judging my alpha mates mobs give decent exp, but the other 3 methods are emphasized. Don't mean you can't do it if you like

The issue is Yoshi cant find a balance and thats something that needs needs to do. You can have it 1 way you need to have it multiple ways so that every type of level or exp gain is balanced to suite all player types.

[Jacien]

At first I thought you were saying how the quests were "cookie cutter", but I see you're actually responding to the people that are saying it. That said...

I don't think these people realize that the Quests that were shown were essentially Sidequests. And Sidequests in RPGs are pretty simple and haven't changed much. Mob control, fetch items, or bring materials.

They probably wouldn't be able to handle Xenoblade, cause it's full of "cookie cutter" Sidequests. And they wouldn't realize that the main incentive for these quests is to get you to go to different places and try new things.

Like Yoshi-P has stated before regarding the RPG genre,

"Unless you are a genius, you cannot make something completely new from nothing."

[Rau]

So what exactly do you people want. Do you want to party together in order to level or to keep questing? Make up your mind.. because guess what, it is ALWAYS going to be the same thing when it comes to questing. I do not care what any developer tells you about there game or how much make-up they put on the process.

I think the main thing people want is options. We shouldn't be locked down into being forced to questing like GW2 and newer MMOs do, nor forced to grind like they days of old.

Also, hi noc. I miss you.

[NoctisXZ]

I think the main thing people want is options. We shouldn't be locked down into being forced to questing like GW2 and newer MMOs do, nor forced to grind like they days of old.

Also, hi noc. I miss you.

Oh wow.. hey!

The thing is though is that most of these types of games already have options presented to the players. Regardless of it being through running repeated dungeons, party content, or questing, solo content. And for those who like neither in most of these games you can also just straight up grind mobs to the level cap.

So I honestly am dumbfounded as to what people want. Questing can not and never will change radically based on the things I've heard said. They will always be made up of "Kill X" or "Acquire Y amount of items" quests with some variety sprinkled in for flavor. In order for each quest to be an individual snowflake that would mean that the number of actual quests would have to be significantly reduced.. which in turn would mean that, unless each of those quests gave absurd amounts of experience, they couldn't be used as a form of level progression.

So it leads me back to my point. What do they want? What do they expect to change? It's already been made clear that players prefer questing over having to depend on others and form groups in order to level up.

Questing can not change in the way they want it to. It's simply not possible..

[Zumi]

I think the main thing people want is options. We shouldn't be locked down into being forced to questing like GW2 and newer MMOs do, nor forced to grind like they days of old.

Also, hi noc. I miss you.

They do give you options in ARR

1. Quest exp,
2. Queue up for low level dungeons get exp in a group.
3. Grind mobs for exp, but may not be that efficient.

[Xatsh]

They do give you options in ARR

1. Quest exp,
2. Queue up for low level dungeons get exp in a group.
3. Grind mobs for exp, but may not be that efficient.

#3 is not really an option if it is not efficient, which is potentially the problem. Having the option to do something but it being completely pointless is not really an option at all. Just like in WoW you can level up only killing mobs never questing or running a dungeon... but it would be stupid.

The devs need to remember people raged in 1.0 about there being no group based xping. And I do not think dungeon raiding and random battles in the field with insta-pugs will cut it.

This is the only major issue I see from my limited knowledge of Alpha, still waiting for my invite to actually test it out myself. Group based XP outside questing and dungeons should still be > Solo quest XP. I know they are making the game sorta like WoW but the forced Solo questing and party only in instance mentality is the BIGGEST NEGATIVE WOW HAS.


SE needs to ballance every method. In the end group XP must be good enough people prefer it over solo or solo will be the prefered choice. Solo takes 1 person, group takes 2+ if solo = group everyone will just solo.

1) Group based xp chaining on hardermobs in the world should give really good xp.
2) Solo questing should progress you at a decent rate.
3) Fate should progress you at a decent rate
4) Dungeons should progres at a decent rate.

Have to remember there are a Lot and I mean a LOT of people who hate questing.

[KiriA500]

I know they are making the game sorta like WoW but the forced Solo questing and party only in instance mentality is the BIGGEST NEGATIVE WOW HAS.

You don't have to quest solo. That's like saying the leves where solo only, when you could still do them as a party and get good EXP. Just because you did them solo didn't mean they were forced solo.