So about jump.

[Menchi]

To the ones saying the people bothered by this should ignore it, would it be so much a burden if -you- couldn't jump on tents, hop about, or is it that you want to be able to do those things, and feel you have more right to your wants than others?

What real reason can you give to allow jumping on structures, that you're obviously not supposed to? Other than "freedom" and "Just because" The real problem here, is a lot of you feel peoples valid concerns of it changing the style of FFXIV from somewhat realistic, to a comical, cartoony vibe, akin to other generic MMOs, isn't valid and not worth thinking about. I disagree and feel all opinions should be evaluated.

I think it is fair to actually balance both sides of the coin, and see what is being put in "for the sake of it" and what could be done to appease both sides. Since, obviously, it is an issue, however minor it seems to one side.

[Majidah]

To the ones saying the people bothered by this should ignore it, would it be so much a burden if -you- couldn't jump on tents, hop about, or is it that you want to be able to do those things, and feel you have more right to your wants than others?

What real reason can you give to allow jumping on structures, that you're obviously not supposed to? Other than "freedom" and "Just because" The real problem here, is a lot of you feel peoples valid concerns of it changing the style of FFXIV from somewhat realistic, to a comical, cartoony vibe, akin to other generic MMOs, isn't valid and not worth thinking about. I disagree and feel all opinions should be evaluated.

I think it is fair to actually balance both sides of the coin, and see what is being put in "for the sake of it" and what could be done to appease both sides. Since, obviously, it is an issue, however minor it seems to one side.

^This. A thousand times.

I think being able to jump on any surface conveys a cartoon like image, akin to cheap amateur MMORPGs.
While FF does portray things with humor, it has nothing cheap about the way it delivers it. And realism, on top of all, is what's been predominating in its titles. Specially on 1.0.

The whole "more freedom is better" argument is pretty silly, in my opinion.

Otherwise people would be able to walk through water or to jump from any height or get through walls and any obstacles.
What makes one more noteworthy than the other? Just because it hasn't been addressed yet?

You already aren't able to jump off high cliffs due to invisible walls. This serves to portray common sense in your character. And in the same way, it should be portrayed by not allowing them to jump on top of every structure like baboons.

[KaiTBF]

^This. A thousand times.

I think being able to jump on any surface conveys a cartoon like image, akin to cheap amateur MMORPGs.
While FF does portray things with humor, it has nothing cheap about the way it delivers it. And realism, on top of all, is what's been predominating in its titles. Specially on 1.0.

The whole "more freedom is better" argument is pretty silly, in my opinion.

Otherwise people would be able to walk through water or to jump from any height or get through walls and any obstacles.
What makes one more noteworthy than the other? Just because it hasn't been addressed yet?

You already aren't able to jump off high cliffs due to invisible walls. This serves to portray common sense in your character. And in the same way, it should be portrayed by not allowing them to jump on top of every structure like baboons.

Now on to this, less than 100 times.

I don't feel hopping on tents gives a cartoony vibe, and, while it's true 1.0 did have a theme of realism while Tanaka was running it, that has long come and gone. The point about the rest of the FF series is moot because there's little to no realism involved.

The whole "being able to hop on tents in a fantasy game is unrealistic" argument is pretty silly in my opinion.

Otherwise we would all have to consume food on a regular basis, use the potteh, would have to rest every night or two, would be susceptible to illness, would have to pay rent on our inns, would skill up extremely slowly with level values being small numbers increasing by thousandths after hours of work, etc. What makes this on more noteworthy than the others?

I think it's lame I can't jump off huge cliffs, and I (being the one who made my character) should be the only one deciding how much common sense my character does or does not have. This should be portrayed by the fact that if I want my character to be a baboon hopping on all the structures, he can.

Edit//P.S sorta thing
Walking on water and phasing through walls could be a fun mechanic actually...

[Majidah]

Now on to this, less than 100 times.

I don't feel hopping on tents gives a cartoony vibe, and, while it's true 1.0 did have a theme of realism while Tanaka was running it, that has long come and gone. The point about the rest of the FF series is moot because there's little to no realism involved.

The same NPCs are being kept. The same plot is being kept. Its all very realistic. I have no idea why do you think it won't be.

Otherwise we would all have to consume food on a regular basis, use the potteh, would have to rest every night or two, would be susceptible to illness, would have to pay rent on our inns, would skill up extremely slowly with level values being small numbers increasing by thousandths after hours of work, etc. What makes this on more noteworthy than the others?

This argument right there is completely whack. You're comparing the abridgment of daily life with a brutal active strike against realism.
SE can deem information like characters pooping to be irrelevant in their game and skip being explicit about it.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that they are building a cloth tent and making it look plastic when allowing for playing to hop on top of it.

The example you gave is omission of data, the second is a direct violent contradiction of what's being told.

[KaiTBF]

The same NPCs are being kept. The same plot is being kept. Its all very realistic. I have no idea why do you think it won't be.



This argument right there is completely whack. You're comparing the abridgment of daily life with a brutal active strike against realism.
SE can deem information like characters pooping to be irrelevant in their game and skip being explicit about it.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that they are building a cloth tent and making it look plastic when allowing for playing to hop on top of it.

The example you gave is omission of data, the second is a direct violent contradiction of what's being told.

The simplification of crafting recipes, removal of the stamina system, and introduction of gear designs that are less then practical (lookin at you drg artifact...) are all pretty clear signs that Yoshi-P has, and intends to continue to stray from realism for the sake of gameplay and a "Final Fantasy feel." As for the story, there's already been confirmation in the Reinhart translation thread that 1.0's story is being scrapped, and the amount of epic absurdity going on in our wonderful new storyline is so far from realistic that you must be joking.

Your argument was no less "whack" than mine. SE can also deem the lack of tent physics or invisible barriers around their tents as irrelevant in their game and skip wasting resources necessary to make countermeasures against tent hoppers.

[Arcell]

^This. A thousand times.

I think being able to jump on any surface conveys a cartoon like image, akin to cheap amateur MMORPGs.
While FF does portray things with humor, it has nothing cheap about the way it delivers it. And realism, on top of all, is what's been predominating in its titles. Specially on 1.0.

The whole "more freedom is better" argument is pretty silly, in my opinion.

Otherwise people would be able to walk through water or to jump from any height or get through walls and any obstacles.
What makes one more noteworthy than the other? Just because it hasn't been addressed yet?

You already aren't able to jump off high cliffs due to invisible walls. This serves to portray common sense in your character. And in the same way, it should be portrayed by not allowing them to jump on top of every structure like baboons.

Perhaps my character's innate common sense should also make me unable to attack enemies that will assuredly kill me. I mean my character should innately know that it's a silly thing to do. His common sense self-preservation should kick in and intervene in what I, the player, am telling him to do.

Not being able to jump off of high cliffs isn't exactly comparable to jumping on a tent. One will kill you, the other simply looks silly. Who are you to say that people aren't allowed to look silly?

Invisible walls are just as silly as invisible forces holding up structures. I don't think it's necessarily cartoony, it just not restrictive. As others have mentioned, people can still find ways on top of things they shouldn't. If it's not restricted people are less likely to care because they're not being told not to do that.

I still say this fixation on "realism" is a little ridiculous, considering both scenarios are equally unbelievable. It's a limitation of it being a game, and an MMO at that. No one's said they want to walk on water or through walls, those are not things that the game normally allows you to do. The game world does not treat tents as some special structure that one must never tread upon, because that would be silly.

[Montijin]

I don't have a problem with anyone nitpicking at this game and voicing their annoyances. I'm very analytical of the games I play and its why I've had a tough time finding an MMO I can stay with; so I can relate to small grievances.

The reason why you're seeing people angry at you and others for making these topics is because they are so far down on the list of things SE needs to worry about that it's infuriating to see them as the most replied threads.

It seems like the SE representatives will reply to the threads that get the most attention and instead of those threads being about something crucial to the game, like some of the topics Aion posted, they are topics like the gay marriage thread.

[KaiTBF]

To the ones saying the people bothered by this should ignore it, would it be so much a burden if -you- couldn't jump on tents, hop about, or is it that you want to be able to do those things, and feel you have more right to your wants than others?

What real reason can you give to allow jumping on structures, that you're obviously not supposed to? Other than "freedom" and "Just because" The real problem here, is a lot of you feel peoples valid concerns of it changing the style of FFXIV from somewhat realistic, to a comical, cartoony vibe, akin to other generic MMOs, isn't valid and not worth thinking about. I disagree and feel all opinions should be evaluated.

I think it is fair to actually balance both sides of the coin, and see what is being put in "for the sake of it" and what could be done to appease both sides. Since, obviously, it is an issue, however minor it seems to one side.

I'll start with this.

I'm assuming "the ones saying... should ignore it" is addressing me, and yes, it would be a burden. Would it break the game for me? No. Would it lessen my capability to enjoy the game? Yes, it would. Do I think my desires are any more important than the OP's? Not at all. In fact, I think the issue is that it's quite the opposite; those who are staunch supporters seem to think that their "immersion" or "realism" is more important than the community's enjoyment of hopping around on tents like the brilliant men and women they are.

On to the second point, the reason I want to jump on random structures and do stupid things on them is because it releases a burst of endorphins in my brain giving me great pleasure. I enjoy hopping and standing in places I'm not supposed to, it's fun. I remember in XI I used to spend most of my time perched on a wall lantern you could drop down to by climbing up on a broken part of the wall and walking along the edge. Standing on my perch chucking spells and arrows at my enemies gave me untold delight. Now, some metaphorical grinches are trying to ruin my metaphorical Christmas with their not so metaphorical invisible walls and there's no feasible compromise available. The only solutions that won't devour the limited resources available for the creation of ARR is to either add boundaries, or to leave it as is. If someone could offer a practical compromise I would be willing to accept it, but as it stands there is no such compromise, and if it comes down to whether to implement boundaries or not I think it's much more suitable to leave it as be, the biggest reason being the difference in effort required to achieve the results both sides want.

Say they leave it as it was in alpha, no boundaries limiting the surfaces you can stand on, how hard is it for someone who is against seeing me hop on my tent to look away? Not hard at all, in most cases simply rotating your camera slightly would do the trick. Now let's say they did add boundaries, how much effort would it take people like me to hop on said tents? Significantly more, seeing as how I'd have to spend hours at every tent in the realm attempting to find a hold in the boundary or a game mechanic to abuse to reach the top of said tent (and I can assure you I or someone else cam and will find a hole in the programming) now after hours, days or months I've achieved my goal, and all around will be forced to turn their heads anyhow as I declare myself king of the tent! In the end the same situation will have been reached, but with far more effort on my part, and I will be likely to abuse that tent 100x more because it was an achievement for me to get on top of it, had the tent been simple to get on top of I might do it once in a while to mess around but my tent to ground ratio will be far lower than if I had to glitch my way up the tent.

On to teh third point!

I can actually pretty much agree here, the game has certainly taken a more "cartoony" direction than it had in 1.0, and that should be discussed. However, the "cartoony" feel exists because of animation, gear design, color choice, lighting, general aesthetic, and the strange iridescence all the characters seem to have, not because I can jump on tents. This has nothing to do with the aesthetics of the game, rather, it's root is the person in question's hatred of silly things. Anyone who is truly offended by people on tents is also likely to be an enemy of mid-winter subligar parades, walking in circles around someone for a couple hours, or merging gobbues to form a single super cerberus goobue with three heads and four spaghetti arms.

As fer yer final point matey, no feasible compromise has been offered, so balancing is currently out of the question yaar, but if one of ye scallywags were t' come up wit' such a solution, I'd be mighty proud. But in order to do that we'd require something besides extremist parties who spew nonsense and vitriol.

[Totorixiii]

I'll start with this.

I'm assuming "the ones saying... should ignore it" is addressing me, and yes, it would be a burden. Would it break the game for me? No. Would it lessen my capability to enjoy the game? Yes, it would. Do I think my desires are any more important than the OP's? Not at all. In fact, I think the issue is that it's quite the opposite; those who are staunch supporters seem to think that their "immersion" or "realism" is more important than the community's enjoyment of hopping around on tents like the brilliant men and women they are.

On to the second point, the reason I want to jump on random structures and do stupid things on them is because it releases a burst of endorphins in my brain giving me great pleasure. I enjoy hopping and standing in places I'm not supposed to, it's fun. I remember in XI I used to spend most of my time perched on a wall lantern you could drop down to by climbing up on a broken part of the wall and walking along the edge. Standing on my perch chucking spells and arrows at my enemies gave me untold delight. Now, some metaphorical grinches are trying to ruin my metaphorical Christmas with their not so metaphorical invisible walls and there's no feasible compromise available. The only solutions that won't devour the limited resources available for the creation of ARR is to either add boundaries, or to leave it as is. If someone could offer a practical compromise I would be willing to accept it, but as it stands there is no such compromise, and if it comes down to whether to implement boundaries or not I think it's much more suitable to leave it as be, the biggest reason being the difference in effort required to achieve the results both sides want.

Say they leave it as it was in alpha, no boundaries limiting the surfaces you can stand on, how hard is it for someone who is against seeing me hop on my tent to look away? Not hard at all, in most cases simply rotating your camera slightly would do the trick. Now let's say they did add boundaries, how much effort would it take people like me to hop on said tents? Significantly more, seeing as how I'd have to spend hours at every tent in the realm attempting to find a hold in the boundary or a game mechanic to abuse to reach the top of said tent (and I can assure you I or someone else cam and will find a hole in the programming) now after hours, days or months I've achieved my goal, and all around will be forced to turn their heads anyhow as I declare myself king of the tent! In the end the same situation will have been reached, but with far more effort on my part, and I will be likely to abuse that tent 100x more because it was an achievement for me to get on top of it, had the tent been simple to get on top of I might do it once in a while to mess around but my tent to ground ratio will be far lower than if I had to glitch my way up the tent.

On to teh third point!

I can actually pretty much agree here, the game has certainly taken a more "cartoony" direction than it had in 1.0, and that should be discussed. However, the "cartoony" feel exists because of animation, gear design, color choice, lighting, general aesthetic, and the strange iridescence all the characters seem to have, not because I can jump on tents. This has nothing to do with the aesthetics of the game, rather, it's root is the person in question's hatred of silly things. Anyone who is truly offended by people on tents is also likely to be an enemy of mid-winter subligar parades, walking in circles around someone for a couple hours, or merging gobbues to form a single super cerberus goobue with three heads and four spaghetti arms.

As fer yer final point matey, no feasible compromise has been offered, so balancing is currently out of the question yaar, but if one of ye scallywags were t' come up wit' such a solution, I'd be mighty proud. But in order to do that we'd require something besides extremist parties who spew nonsense and vitriol.

True strike!

The world is colorful and or dull and there's always that yin/yang effect as in black or white.
Some people I guess are just too conservative.