SE stop doing the "norm"

[Dannythm]

TERA was bad, but it was hardly a wow clone.

Most of these ppl did not even play these games, they just see the UI and auto think its a clone. I played Wow and Rift and Aion are nothing like it.

Didn't you know? Every game with quest markers are WoW clones. It's all about the quests.

I played all those games and they are all Everquest clones, with gimmicks, none of those played risky except maybe, for the old republic, as they rsiked turning 8 single player games in one MMO, and you all know how it turned out.

What success did Warhammer online had? Or Aion and Rift all of them closing merging servers and going f2p because they can't keep players? Minor changes to the combat systems or just adding an extra talent tree or more slide bars in the character creations do not alter that they are all based of the same mold, and that is the path Everquest set, that wow perfected and everyone copied.

That's why I liked FFXI and what I liked about Tanaka's vision, that they are out of the same route, they want to give the players a different experience, not just the same old one with a new gimmick and a equally colorful world than the game before.

[Ingolf]

I played all those games and they are all Everquest clones, with gimmicks, none of those played risky except maybe, for the old republic, as they rsiked turning 8 single player games in one MMO, and you all know how it turned out.

What success did Warhammer online had? Or Aion and Rift all of them closing merging servers and going f2p because they can't keep players? Minor changes to the combat systems or just adding an extra talent tree or more slide bars in the character creations do not alter that they are all based of the same mold, and that is the path Everquest set, that wow perfected and everyone copied.

That's why I liked FFXI and what I liked about Tanaka's vision, that they are out of the same route, they want to give the players a different experience, not just the same old one with a new gimmick and a equally colorful world than the game before.

Clearly you didn't. TERA wasn't a clone in any way, AION was significantly different also. If you're saying TERA had a 'minor' change in combat, you clearly never played it. A game can be bad without being a wow clone.

I'd suggest you read this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsBeenDone

You can find similarities in anything, if you look hard enough.

[Dannythm]

Clearly you didn't. TERA wasn't a clone in any way, AION was significantly different also. If you're saying TERA had a 'minor' change in combat, you clearly never played it. A game can be bad without being a wow clone.

I'd suggest you read this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsBeenDone

You can find similarities in anything, if you look hard enough.

Yeah I played a Slayer till lvl 30 in Tera, the combat is boring and repetitive sicne lvl 6, didin't think it could get any better any time soon. It's like they wanted to have the Demon's/Dark Souls combat but "streamlined" for bigger crowds. The rest of the game plays exactly like Everquest, WoW and a ton of others, and that why it fails. Just like I said a minor change in combat is just a gimmick.

Aion is even a more lookalike, the gimmick there were the wings and the two-way specialization for the classes.

I do not need to look hard to find they are the same game with different minor gimmicks.

[Starlord]

Yeah I played a Slayer till lvl 30 in Tera, the combat is boring and repetitive sicne lvl 6, didin't think it could get any better any time soon. It's like they wanted to have the Demon's/Dark Souls combat but "streamlined" for bigger crowds. The rest of the game plays exactly like Everquest, WoW and a ton of others, and that why it fails. Just like I said a minor change in combat is just a gimmick.

Aion is even a more lookalike, the gimmick there were the wings and the two-way specialization for the classes.

I do not need to look hard to find they are the same game with different minor gimmicks.

I play Aion Currently with my girlfriend, and Aion is pretty fun to play for a F2P game. the "Styled Graphics" are out of this world. The Yellow Marker Quests sometimes have CS attached to them. and Aions Character Creation to be quite honest is better than FFXIV's atm. You can do just about anything with Aion's CC, only thing it really needs is some more colors but other than that you can make pretty much anything out of the CC. Midget/Skinny/Fat/Tall/Weird looking/different skin tone (Green/blue/white/red etc).

That's how I feel about it anyways.

[AntonyB]

I play Aion Currently with my girlfriend, and Aion is pretty fun to play for a F2P game. the "Styled Graphics" are out of this world. The Yellow Marker Quests sometimes have CS attached to them. and Aions Character Creation to be quite honest is better than FFXIV's atm. You can do just about anything with Aion's CC, only thing it really needs is some more colors but other than that you can make pretty much anything out of the CC. Midget/Skinny/Fat/Tall/Weird looking/different skin tone (Green/blue/white/red etc).

That's how I feel about it anyways.

Yeah, I saw many weird looking characters when playing Aion! xD The CC is good, I like how you can change hair/skin color at anytime and also can change everything else if you purchase it, wish FF would implant this(incoming omg WoW copy).

[Dannythm]

I play Aion Currently with my girlfriend, and Aion is pretty fun to play for a F2P game. the "Styled Graphics" are out of this world. The Yellow Marker Quests sometimes have CS attached to them. and Aions Character Creation to be quite honest is better than FFXIV's atm. You can do just about anything with Aion's CC, only thing it really needs is some more colors but other than that you can make pretty much anything out of the CC. Midget/Skinny/Fat/Tall/Weird looking/different skin tone (Green/blue/white/red etc).

That's how I feel about it anyways.

I'm not crticising those games saying that they are bad or not fun. I'm not anyone to judge what delivers fun to anyone. I'm saying that those games are born from the same ideas, basic mechanics and concepts, and that none of them were as successful as it was expected to be, just because it's the same old formula.

1.0 didn't flop because it's conceptions or the original ideas behind it, it flopped because it was a technical disaster where nothing worked, not because the concepts behind it.

[Starlord]

I'm not crticising those games saying that they are bad or not fun. I'm not anyone to judge what delivers fun to anyone. I'm saying that those games are born from the same ideas basic mechanics and concepts, and that none of them were as successful as it was expected to be, just because it's the same old formula.

1.0 didn't flop because it's conceptions or the original ideas behind it, it flopped because it was a technical disaster where nothing worked, not because the concepts behind it.

Even if FFXIV wasn't a technical disaster, can you truly tell me with a straight face that there was plenty of content to last 500k people till the next update? Leves were just repeating itself over and over again, We had no Chocobos/Airships, No primal fights. Just the storyline missions and leves.. However, if currently what we have now was at Launch I could easily agree with you on it.

Battle system was flawed ( now its alot better), A "Chance" at sp per hit was the worst idea ever >.>.

There just wasn't enough content to keep those watery mouths happy =(.

[Ingolf]

Yeah I played a Slayer till lvl 30 in Tera, the combat is boring and repetitive sicne lvl 6, didin't think it could get any better any time soon. It's like they wanted to have the Demon's/Dark Souls combat but "streamlined" for bigger crowds. The rest of the game plays exactly like Everquest, WoW and a ton of others, and that why it fails. Just like I said a minor change in combat is just a gimmick.

Aion is even a more lookalike, the gimmick there were the wings and the two-way specialization for the classes.

I do not need to look hard to find they are the same game with different minor gimmicks.

Well clearly you haven't played it enough because TERA's combat is very different from wow's. You should really read the tropes I provided earlier. TERA failed for an entirely different reason, not because it's a wow clone. With your loose set of prerequisites you could call anything a wow clone.

IT HAS A SWORD?!?!?! WOW CLONE WOULD NOT BUY 0/10

[Dannythm]

Well clearly you haven't played it enough because TERA's combat is very different from wow's. You should really read the tropes I provided earlier. TERA failed for an entirely different reason, not because it's a wow clone. With your loose set of prerequisites you could call anything a wow clone.

IT HAS A SWORD?!?!?! WOW CLONE WOULD NOT BUY 0/10

Combat does not make a game. I have friends that played it until lvl 60 and left for the same reasons I did at lvl 30. The combat it's different yes, but the overall game isn't, and quoting TV tropes is a way to show that you cannot make up your own arguments. If you actually read my posts you'd see I'm not calling them wow clones, but everquest clones with gimmicks. Tera combat is a gimmick, it don't make the game a whole different experience from any of the other games made using the same formula, once you get the knack of the combat or gimmick you just play the same game as before over and over again.

I'm in awe that in this forums people chose to defend other games before defending FFXIV and what it stood and stands for.

[Ingolf]

Combat does not make a game. I have friends that played it until lvl 60 and left for the same reasons I did at lvl 30. The combat it's different yes, but the overall game isn't, and quoting TV tropes is a way to show that you cannot make up your own arguments. If you actually read my posts you'd see I'm not calling them wow clones, but everquest clones with gimmicks. Tera combat is a gimmick, it don't make the game a whole different experience from any of the other games makes using the same formula, once you get the knack of the combat or gimmick you just play the same game as before over and over again.

I'm in awe that in this forums people chose to defend other games before defending FFXIV and what it stood and stands for.

Well they're not clones at all though, that's the entire point. And yeah, quoting another website with your exact argument pre-made is ok with me. In fact it just shows how common your fallacious point of view is. If you look into anything with that mindset then everything is a clone. The term clone itself is incorrect as each of those games is significantly different.

Similarities does not a clone make.

And I'm not defending XIV because it doesn't deserve to be defended. 1.0 was terrible, buggy and several steps back from the accepted quality of MMO's today.

2.0's questing system is pretty much the only thing that's similar to wow (we haven't even seen that much, so I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions.)