SE stop doing the "norm"

[Gokulo]

Abused-wife mentality or something like that

[TomCarroll]

I am a FFXI vet and I know there are plenty of others out there giving XIV a chance. Now based of what is being done and the direction XIV is going isnt something that I like. Now I will give it a fair shake but.... if 2.0 is an easy mode shit box than I know I wont stay and a lot of XI vets will leave as well. Regardless of what SE is trying to do, XIV is going in the wrong direction. Ill be honest I really cant see XIV surviveing past 1 year with the current direction yoshi is taking it, but as I said I will give it 1 year. So Yoshi has to get his shit together and not make mistakes (although I think he is making a huge mistake in the direction thats my opinion).

I still can't see this as a valid argument... Why does everyone want an updated FFXI? FFXI is still up and running, we can always choose to go play that.

Like it or not, no game will ever make you feel like XI did. Not because it was better or unique, but because it was probably the first MMO you played that really stuck with you. Unquestionably, there are people out there who feel the same way about EQ and WoW.

Every day I read these forums and people are constantly whining about nitpicky bullshit like backpedaling and a PC-Friendly UI. How is this remotely constructive in building a community or offering feedback? Especially since everything we're arguing about is almost entirely speculative at this point.

"Industry Standards" are a double-edged sword; you offer mass-appeal in your game's functionality, but there needs to be a twist in offering a unique and enjoyable experience. This is where XI shined, and it's likely that ARR will shine in a similar way.

I sort of lost my train of thought... Either way, we can't keep looking through our nostalgia goggles forever. Most of us who've played XI aren't playing it anymore for a reason. Why do we want to be spoon-fed the same gameplay that we've already moved past?

[TomCarroll]

Stopped reading there. Playing FFXI doesn't give you some sort of bullshit validity to playing this game. If you don't like the direction it's going, sure, that's fine. But the dev team, and the community decided this game head the direction it is heading long ago. They released the polls and we gave our answers. The community asked for this game.

Also lol at the people saying 1.xx was unique but 2.0 isn't. I guess Tanaka's terrible ideas were what make a game truly unique.

Oh God... Have my babies, please.

[strallaalaa]

Stopped reading there. Playing FFXI doesn't give you some sort of bullshit validity to playing this game. If you don't like the direction it's going, sure, that's fine. But the dev team, and the community decided this game head the direction it is heading long ago. They released the polls and we gave our answers. The community asked for this game.

Also lol at the people saying 1.xx was unique but 2.0 isn't. I guess Tanaka's terrible ideas were what make a game truly unique.

most of tanaka's ideas were great, they were just incomplete and broken. the game failed from lack of content and a broken game not cause of the type of game it was. the problem then was they gave everyone power of voice and reality is it isn't going to help the game. if they really listened to all the people on just forums the game won't last a year.

tanaka. lets see, 16man party grinds, now quests and dungeons will be our meat. total 360 of a mmo.
the polls are like going to a mind reading show or telepathy program or ghosts see'er. you got what you wanted from it, they were vague questions that didn't ask you what you really wanted. it's not like it asked hey do you want casuals to eat a dick or hardcore /vote. they already had a vision for the most part and the questions were irrelevant to it's direction.

also the community? most players play mmo's they don't vote. obviously they still keep going more and more casual so that means companies are still making more money this way from sheer numbers or something. but it's also obvious that the mmo's are dying out much quicker right? not sure what that tells people.

in the end i think ffxiv still has a chance to be great they may 180 sneak attack and make it much more of what ffxi had little by little and that was my only hope. so in the end this will be there last chance at 2.0 to show us they care even a little about the people who have been mmo'ing for something more then just casual play.

[Cynthis]

Sadly, it's the world we live in. Games, and entertainment in general, has become so expensive to make that companies as a rule don't dare to gamble on something unique. What percentage of games are not sequels or spin-offs from other games, movies, books or any other existing content? What percentage of movies?

While I suppose it is true that creativity has always come from the fringes and in small scale, we now live in an age where that is all but drowned out.

[Ruisu]

most of tanaka's ideas were great, they were just incomplete and broken. the game failed from lack of content and a broken game not cause of the type of game it was. the problem then was they gave everyone power of voice and reality is it isn't going to help the game. if they really listened to all the people on just forums the game won't last a year.

No, they were not. His ideas made a lot of games very tedious (Chrono Cross, Xenogears, and obviously FFXI.) While they were good games, they weren't because of his ideas. His ideas are what bogged most of those games down, actually. FFXIV failed for a number of reasons, bad UI, bad design, lack of identity in classes, etc. THM could fucking solo Dodore for christ's sake. Tanaka was also very much against player opinions on something, and that was something that followed from FFXI as well.

"HEY THIS SUCKS FIX IT" No it's working as intended! Why don't you realize my visiooon?!

tanaka. lets see, 16man party grinds, now quests and dungeons will be our meat. total 360 of a mmo.
the polls are like going to a mind reading show or telepathy program or ghosts see'er. you got what you wanted from it, they were vague questions that didn't ask you what you really wanted. it's not like it asked hey do you want casuals to eat a dick or hardcore /vote. they already had a vision for the most part and the questions were irrelevant to it's direction.

Oh boy, 16 people charging onto one crab does not look completely absurd and ridiculous. Also sticking around one small square foot in the entire map as compared to the exploration that questing can give you. and dungeons too. No no no, camping crabs for hours on end is FAR more enjoyable than that.

also the community? most players play mmo's they don't vote. obviously they still keep going more and more casual so that means companies are still making more money this way from sheer numbers or something. but it's also obvious that the mmo's are dying out much quicker right? not sure what that tells people.

Look up the votes from 2011. The community voted for this game to turn out the way it did. Deal with it.

in the end i think ffxiv still has a chance to be great they may 180 sneak attack and make it much more of what ffxi had little by little and that was my only hope. so in the end this will be there last chance at 2.0 to show us they care even a little about the people who have been mmo'ing for something more then just casual play.

They're already bogging XIV down with bad XI ideas, like Level caps. However, yes, they can take great ideas from FFXI as well, but a lot of what people are asking for are asinine time sinks and arbitrary walls like Maat caps.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Why does FFXI need to be the subject that we keep coming back to in this discussion? I'd like to point out first, a really large majority of the player base --or at least the player base at the first couple of player polls-- do not discuss on the official forums. This is a voice that will not be heard by many who frequent here. Maybe it's a case of out of sight; out of mind, but they are out there.

However, let's get back to why we bring up FFXI so much. This is something I've learned through the process of this game failing and on the road to being redeveloped. I've noticed, in the beginning, that I was looking quite forward to their next installment and felt like a kid again. I remembered running through Sarutabaruta leveling my BLM and it being the first Summerfest killing Rabai and running to the zone lines away from Yaguto. Then later, probably a week later knowing FFXI's progression, gathering all the BLM I could find to kill worms in The Maze of Shakhrami and warning them to be very conservative on using Stonega as it might hit another worm or Goblin with it's back turned.

I thought of these things then I played FFXIV. Maybe not for the same reasons, but I was incredibly let down. The game changed and was being salvaged with a new Director/Producer then an outline was made which completely changed what I had originally visioned the game to be and the feeling it would give me. However, I started to think differently than how I see most other players think. I thought of why I didn't feel the same way as I anticipated, rather than, what the game was or wasn't doing to make me feel how I wanted to feel. Then I remembered, I'm not a kid anymore.

I'm not terribly young where I have more free time and use that time to have more fun and form lasting impressions on a game as I would now. This is what we call nostalgia. Things are always better when you were younger. All of the, "In my day..." tales have a point to them indirectly and that point is, things are just way more fun when you are young. Understanding this was the best lesson going into ARR or any other MMO new to the market. I think if people just started to accept FFXIV is never going to give you the same feelings your last MMO gave you, we can have a discussion that holds ideas with more substance and creativity.

You will never get that feeling you got 10 years ago back, ever. You are not who you were 10 years ago. You just need to let that go and grow with whats new.

[Ruisu]

This is what we call nostalgia.

As right as you are, brace for the shitstorm.

[VitoScaletta]

However, let's get back to why we bring up FFXI so much. This is something I've learned through the process of this game failing and on the road to being redeveloped. I've noticed, in the beginning, that I was looking quite forward to their next installment and felt like a kid again. I remembered running through Sarutabaruta leveling my BLM and it being the first Summerfest killing Rabai and running to the zone lines away from Yaguto. Then later, probably a week later knowing FFXI's progression, gathering all the BLM I could find to kill worms in The Maze of Shakhrami and warning them to be very conservative on using Stonega as it might hit another worm or Goblin with it's back turned.

the rush of nastalgia made my head explode. i rmember using my lil scoop to get the goldfish...o man... i can think about my 8 years of FFXI experience all day.

[Rokien]

-blah-.

This thread isn't about ffxi, I just brought it up as a point. Though to get to your point, FFXI is still there, i can log on right now if i wanted to and get the same feeling as I did a year or so ago. It's not about "nostalgia" for one FFXI is still there, and I can play it. I've never asked FFXIV to be like FFXI, I've only stated and asked WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY DO IT AS THERE BASE FOR 1.0 or 2.0! Instead of other games that don't last, do I even have to name them?

The only thing I want back from FFXI is not the world, not the characters, but the community and the sense of adventure. These other mmos don't let you have that adventure for reasons; Quest hubs, Big Question mark markers, level of mobs, ! THIS MOB AGROS DON'T GO NEAR IT!, instances everywhere. It's not an adventure if the company is telling you where to go and what to do. FFXI didn't hold your hand, Galaxies didn't hold your hand. Every mmo now, doesn't let you go off the beaten path, because now you can complete an mmo by completing each area. Completed this area? AWESOME, go to the next and complete that.

This is why I'm REALLY looking forward to archage(though sadly it will be another 2 years before it gets over here, because that's how korean mmos work).

Sure mobs were tedious to grind, but so are quests, and even more so in my opinion, because you are still killing mobs, but you have to put in that extra leg work, also they tell you what to kill not you asking, would it be better to kill this or this at my level, what about other areas?

FFXI had it's flaws, nobody never denied it, people love ffxi for different reasons, some endgame, others the world, and me? Well me, it was the sense of adventure every time I turned it on, and doing random stuff with my friends, whether that be camp an nm, find a new cool place to hang out, story, finding random quests, farming, getting gear, unlocking areas, whatever order I want.

Now you are going to say, you can do that in 2.0, sure you can, but you know what is going to get my attention, because I'm a completionist, I see that question mark, and I have to do it, I want it gone! Also, it's not me going my own direction it's the games direction, yoshis direction, guiding me on what I should do, instead of me deciding on what to do.

FFXI is dated, combat is terrible, same with 2.0 (auto attack, blah), after playing tera, teras combat is amazing, and really engaging. Though as I said before, it's telling me what to do, guiding me though the game, just like gw2, rift, wow, any other game you can think of. I bring up ffxi for the reasons I said above, I could care less about the world the music, I just want another game that I can get lost in once again, that's what I'm looking for, and that's why I think FFXIV should be more like FFXI in hopes for that to happen again.


Lets also not forget that mmos now, are single player games with multiplayer aspects.