Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

[Wynn]

You agreed to change your seal odds to what they were when the seal dropped. You knew exactly the odds you were getting into. You got the odds you agreed to, you have absolutely nothing to complain about.

If that player genuinely needed the seal, I'd be more than happy to let him loot on it which is why I said ok. That person made the change under false pretense by means of omission. Don't sit here and try to tell me what they did was on the up and up and that it was somehow my fault so I should shut up.

[Raikki]

If that player genuinely needed the seal, I'd be more than happy to let him loot on it which is why I said ok. That person made the change under false pretense by means of omission. Don't sit here and try to tell me what they did was on the up and up and that it was somehow my fault so I should shut up.

The nature of a pickup group is that everyone's in it for themselves. That's what you're signing up for by participating in one. It's not unethical. There was nothing shady about his omission because what matters to individual members of a PUG is their loot odds, not what other people do with their drops. Your problem is that you want more than the "PUG selfishness" out of your groups, yet you're participating in PUGs. You can't change the nature of a pickup group. Accept that you're playing as an individual and if you want to forge friendships and break out of that, that's great.

[Wynn]

The nature of a pickup group is that everyone's in it for themselves. That's what you're signing up for by participating in one. It's not unethical. There was nothing shady about his omission because what matters to individual members of a PUG is their loot odds, not what other people do with their drops. Your problem is that you want more than the "PUG selfishness" out of your groups, yet you're participating in PUGs. You can't change the nature of a pickup group. Accept that you're playing as an individual and if you want to forge friendships and break out of that, that's great.

Or SE could just fix it so that players who want to manipulate the system in their favor can no longer do so.

[Raikki]

Or SE could just fix it so that players who want to manipulate the system in their favor can no longer do so.

Doing a hamlet with nothing in it for yourself except to help a friend is "manipulating the system in your favor"? I think not. You can't impose your own subjective morality on the rest of the world. The only fair way to handle PUG loot is objectively and individualistically. You agreed to loot odds and you got the loot odds you agreed to. What the winners do doesn't matter, because you're there as an individual and your agreed-upon chance at a seal is the reward for your effort. You're better off taking this as a lesson in how PUGs work than complaining about how the world won't agree with your idea of "fair".

[Wynn]

Doing a hamlet with nothing in it for yourself except to help a friend is "manipulating the system in your favor"? I think not. You can't impose your own subjective morality on the rest of the world. The only fair way to handle PUG loot is objectively and individualistically. You agreed to loot odds and you got the loot odds you agreed to. What the winners do doesn't matter, because you're there as an individual and your agreed-upon chance at a seal is the reward for your effort. You're better off taking this as a lesson in how PUGs work than complaining about how the world won't agree with your idea of "fair".

Well, I will agree with you that what is fair is subjective. And we obviously don't agree on what is.

To correct one point though, the player in question up until the end was there for an item that they wanted. They simply decided to go after a seal for their friend at the end instead of that item. Which we can continue to debate on whether or not making sure someone gets an extra roll on something is a manipulation of the system or not, but I think that is kind of pointless since we won't convince each other.