ARR Gil Cap Reduction

[Orophin]

100mil isn't a lot of money in this game and there will be thousands of pissed off players when including people who have quit and are waiting for V2.

It'll be a lot of money in ARR once they cap you.

You do realise that we will only have one retainer in V2 right?

Do you have a source for this? I don't remember them saying we're losing a retainer, only that their max inventory will shrink.

so the most cost effective thing to do is reduce your gil to <10,000 and stockpile gear you can then resell once ARR comes out. you lose no gil, but have invested it all.

I guess my plan is to get a stockpile of armors (which may become useless) and see how the materia systems is adjusted and remeld stuff based on what is now considered "optimal"

Pretty risky considering certain things may drop in value due to less money being in circulation, and we don't know how less effective materia will become.

100 million gil is quite a lot of money. I don't see any reason to go on some mass spending spree to hoard it all, unless you just have so much more over the new cap.

[Molly_Millions]

Pretty risky considering certain things may drop in value due to less money being in circulation, and we don't know how less effective materia will become.

But if you happen to be over the cap, then aside from putting some on a retainer, spending the rest on items is really the only thing you can do to ensure you don't just lose it.

[Xenor]

It'll be a lot of money in ARR once they cap you.

Do you have a source for this? I don't remember them saying we're losing a retainer, only that their max inventory will shrink

No it won't, not if I'll only be 3 times as rich as you rather than 15 times as rich.

I do not, I thought it was common knowledge by now that the second retainer is temporary. But maybe not.

And no I won't "invest" in gear like some people suggest. This is a game where the price of things like Crab Bow +3 can drop from 20mil to 5k over the course of a patch. Who knows what will become trash in patch 2.0? Gambling is a one way path to losing everything. But if you must gamble you'd be safer investing in raw materials. Even then with changes to gathering we don't know how the supply chain will change.

[Kestiel]

After seeing the responses I'm a bit surprised, though my rational mind says I shouldn't be. Regardless of what side you fall on (over 99m, under 99m) you have to see how unfair this is. Disregarding emotional filters and personal feelings; objectively people must know this is unfair and wrong.

Now if they were to divide everybody's gil by a tenth, then that's fair. Somebody with 500m will have 50m, a person with 15m will have 1.5m, and somebody with 200k will have 20k. Adjust the gil rewards from quests/leves/etc. and the inflation is practically gone. If you split up 300m across three retainers, you still end up having only 30m at the end of the day, so it's fair and nobody can squirrel away their gil hoping to circumvent this horribly unfair cap.

If the cap is reduced from 999m to 99m, it stands to reason anybody with over 99m will walk into ARR with 99,999,999gil and not 102,000,000 or whatever they might have. I understand why this is necessary, inflation is ridiculous and in need of a fix. But just capping peoples gil, in effect deleting hard work and hours upon hours players put into their character, will do little to nothing to help in the long-run. However, lowering everybody's gil by a tenth as somebody suggested earlier would equalize gil to a lower level while allowing the same 99m cap to remain and combating inflation effectively as they can at this point.

A person with capped gil now, will have capped gil in ARR (999m -> 99m). That way gil that exists will be more valuable, lowering inflation by a massive margin and causing people to be completely confused how to price things, but eventually the prices will stabilize or people will just take a tenth off. A 1.2m mailbreaker ends up being 120k and still retains the same margin of profit / value it currently does (assuming prices are also decreased by a tenth, if they end up more/less that skews things a bit). Each gil becomes more valuable and therefore we're just removing a zero and curbing the inevitable "big numbers" we're seeing now. For those of you from FFXI, the prices of various things would likely look far more familiar.

Most players with 300m+ will likely just buy more characters before the 30th cut-off and then they'll be able to stash their money and when the time comes, they will have the capital to buy everything up for a drastic reduction in price yet their buying power won't be diminished at all, leading to a harshly lopsided economy. Herein lies the truth; if SE does this it won’t fix things. It will fix practically nothing.

Anybody with a lot of money will get more characters and stash the money away. When ARR comes they’ll still have 300, 500, 700 million gil and since many of them are likely legacy they’ll easily be able to keep the new bank-mules at no cost to themselves. People will figure a way around this, it’s in our nature and it really would further hurt the economy.

The buying power of these people will increase, while some of you may extol the benefits of knocking these millionaires down a few notches, you fail to realize anybody who has that sort of money will still have that money, if all they do is cap gil at 99m it won’t do anything. They’ll just have several characters full of 99m, with everything costing drastically less; they can buy whatever they want for an incredibly long time without worrying about spending any gil. If getting 7/7 relics on average costs ~150m, and after ARR it costs ~15-20m, they make out like bandits and contribute a fraction to the economy that they would have before.

The players that I know that have over 100m are all those who spend a great deal of time crafting, creating goods for the market; in essence these people consider themselves too busy to go mine. They are the ones buying 10+ stacks of darksteel ore, gold ore and other raw mats that people gather. They, in turn, produce finished goods from these raw mats, which sell to people who are in need of finished goods, whether to meld, to have or for relic. The reason 'why' doesn't matter, what do you think will happen if their gil is reduced to 99m and they're capped? If they can't shuffle it off onto a retainer, why would they bother making anything more? Most of them wouldn’t, there’s nothing for them to gain from it.

These people are consummate crafters and some like to treat the AH/MW like the stocks (they buy low, and then sell high on various materials). What happens when the main producers of goods stop making them? Consider the ramifications for a moment.

Miners won’t have as many buyers. They make less money, in return more miners begin to flood the market with raw goods, the reason is two-fold; firstly, they cannot get people to buy and while they and others mine at their usual rate the wards/AH accumulate with goods that have gone unsold, secondly the more that get put up the more undercutting begins to sell anything at all, this lowers the price on goods many average players could count on for gil.

Normally, this leads to more undercutting down the line now that a crafter’s profit margin is larger, they can afford to try and sell faster by undercutting, and the buyer is the one who prospers from lower prices. But in this scenario, there aren’t as many people making these items, so the few that do get made have less competition, in turn people have to pay more and put up with shortages of items (keep in mind the population is very likely to rise, the majority of them won’t have the ability to craft these items for quite a while). This leads to an overall detriment to the player.

If you can’t make money from materia, from crafting, then what would you do? The most occurring answer would be, “nothing, I’ll just enjoy the game.” Which would be well and properly right, but the economy would suffer for it. With so many new crafters and new players the opposite of what we have now would likely come into play, a lopsided shift in item availability. High-end items for capped players would dry up without those to produce them and newer crafters who can’t HQ as easily or can’t make the higher level goods will focus on lower levels.

Miners and procurers of raw goods will see this, and follow the trend by supplying lower-end materials since they sell faster, this will speed up the atrophy of top-end gear and items. If you’ve ever played any MMO where it was easy to get items for yourself while you leveled, and then suddenly at cap you’re gouged for the few items on the market, you’ll understand the potential severity of this issue.

You might say, “But, why don’t they just spend their gil before ARR, or buy stuff after ARR comes out to be able to make gil again?”

A lot of people in this situation already have what they want, they have the gear, the melds and the jobs/classes leveled with nothing to really spend on. They might not want Relics, or that super-rare 4x meld t4 STR gloves (which may or may not take them over-cap and be less useful).

That’s how a lot of these people got the money they have, being frugal or only buying what they needed, or even making what they needed for cheap. Nobody knows what will be for sale after ARR so that’s a question that can’t reliably be answered from either camp. Even still, having to spend gil so you can get cap again seems silly at best.

Now, nobody can truly know what will happen, all my postulation is based on my own educated guesses. I’m not saying this will definitively happen, but I believe it has a markedly high probability if they just cap gil at 99m and do little else. It’s a band-aid over a gut wound that will slowly infect and turn gangrene. I sincerely hope they have some additional answer that I’ve yet to see or that they change their minds and implement a proper adjustment that is fair to all parties. This is just food for thought, or rather, a full three-course dinner due to its length.

TL;DR – This is a poor adjustment, it fixes nothing while attempting to penalize players who have worked hard to amass gil. There are many reasons why somebody wouldn’t spend their gil, and in the end it’s their money to do with as they wish (like saving it). If it’s to thwart RMT; they’ll just find another loophole or glitch and get it all back anyways, the only ‘proven’ method against RMT is constant vigilance.

[Zumi]

After seeing the responses I'm a bit surprised, though my rational mind says I shouldn't be. Regardless of what side you fall on (over 99m, under 99m) you have to see how unfair this is. Disregarding emotional filters and personal feelings; objectively people must know this is unfair and wrong.

Now if they were to divide everybody's gil by a tenth, then that's fair. Somebody with 500m will have 50m, a person with 15m will have 1.5m, and somebody with 200k will have 20k. Adjust the gil rewards from quests/leves/etc. and the inflation is practically gone. If you split up 300m across three retainers, you still end up having only 30m at the end of the day, so it's fair and nobody can squirrel away their gil hoping to circumvent this horribly unfair cap.

If the cap is reduced from 999m to 99m, it stands to reason anybody with over 99m will walk into ARR with 99,999,999gil and not 102,000,000 or whatever they might have. I understand why this is necessary, inflation is ridiculous and in need of a fix. But just capping peoples gil, in effect deleting hard work and hours upon hours players put into their character, will do little to nothing to help in the long-run. However, lowering everybody's gil by a tenth as somebody suggested earlier would equalize gil to a lower level while allowing the same 99m cap to remain and combating inflation effectively as they can at this point.

A person with capped gil now, will have capped gil in ARR (999m -> 99m). That way gil that exists will be more valuable, lowering inflation by a massive margin and causing people to be completely confused how to price things, but eventually the prices will stabilize or people will just take a tenth off. A 1.2m mailbreaker ends up being 120k and still retains the same margin of profit / value it currently does (assuming prices are also decreased by a tenth, if they end up more/less that skews things a bit). Each gil becomes more valuable and therefore we're just removing a zero and curbing the inevitable "big numbers" we're seeing now. For those of you from FFXI, the prices of various things would likely look far more familiar.

Most players with 300m+ will likely just buy more characters before the 30th cut-off and then they'll be able to stash their money and when the time comes, they will have the capital to buy everything up for a drastic reduction in price yet their buying power won't be diminished at all, leading to a harshly lopsided economy. Herein lies the truth; if SE does this it won’t fix things. It will fix practically nothing.

Anybody with a lot of money will get more characters and stash the money away. When ARR comes they’ll still have 300, 500, 700 million gil and since many of them are likely legacy they’ll easily be able to keep the new bank-mules at no cost to themselves. People will figure a way around this, it’s in our nature and it really would further hurt the economy.

The buying power of these people will increase, while some of you may extol the benefits of knocking these millionaires down a few notches, you fail to realize anybody who has that sort of money will still have that money, if all they do is cap gil at 99m it won’t do anything. They’ll just have several characters full of 99m, with everything costing drastically less; they can buy whatever they want for an incredibly long time without worrying about spending any gil. If getting 7/7 relics on average costs ~150m, and after ARR it costs ~15-20m, they make out like bandits and contribute a fraction to the economy that they would have before.

The players that I know that have over 100m are all those who spend a great deal of time crafting, creating goods for the market; in essence these people consider themselves too busy to go mine. They are the ones buying 10+ stacks of darksteel ore, gold ore and other raw mats that people gather. They, in turn, produce finished goods from these raw mats, which sell to people who are in need of finished goods, whether to meld, to have or for relic. The reason 'why' doesn't matter, what do you think will happen if their gil is reduced to 99m and they're capped? If they can't shuffle it off onto a retainer, why would they bother making anything more? Most of them wouldn’t, there’s nothing for them to gain from it.

These people are consummate crafters and some like to treat the AH/MW like the stocks (they buy low, and then sell high on various materials). What happens when the main producers of goods stop making them? Consider the ramifications for a moment.

Miners won’t have as many buyers. They make less money, in return more miners begin to flood the market with raw goods, the reason is two-fold; firstly, they cannot get people to buy and while they and others mine at their usual rate the wards/AH accumulate with goods that have gone unsold, secondly the more that get put up the more undercutting begins to sell anything at all, this lowers the price on goods many average players could count on for gil.

Normally, this leads to more undercutting down the line now that a crafter’s profit margin is larger, they can afford to try and sell faster by undercutting, and the buyer is the one who prospers from lower prices. But in this scenario, there aren’t as many people making these items, so the few that do get made have less competition, in turn people have to pay more and put up with shortages of items (keep in mind the population is very likely to rise, the majority of them won’t have the ability to craft these items for quite a while). This leads to an overall detriment to the player.

If you can’t make money from materia, from crafting, then what would you do? The most occurring answer would be, “nothing, I’ll just enjoy the game.” Which would be well and properly right, but the economy would suffer for it. With so many new crafters and new players the opposite of what we have now would likely come into play, a lopsided shift in item availability. High-end items for capped players would dry up without those to produce them and newer crafters who can’t HQ as easily or can’t make the higher level goods will focus on lower levels.

Miners and procurers of raw goods will see this, and follow the trend by supplying lower-end materials since they sell faster, this will speed up the atrophy of top-end gear and items. If you’ve ever played any MMO where it was easy to get items for yourself while you leveled, and then suddenly at cap you’re gouged for the few items on the market, you’ll understand the potential severity of this issue.

You might say, “But, why don’t they just spend their gil before ARR, or buy stuff after ARR comes out to be able to make gil again?”

A lot of people in this situation already have what they want, they have the gear, the melds and the jobs/classes leveled with nothing to really spend on. They might not want Relics, or that super-rare 4x meld t4 STR gloves (which may or may not take them over-cap and be less useful).

That’s how a lot of these people got the money they have, being frugal or only buying what they needed, or even making what they needed for cheap. Nobody knows what will be for sale after ARR so that’s a question that can’t reliably be answered from either camp. Even still, having to spend gil so you can get cap again seems silly at best.

Now, nobody can truly know what will happen, all my postulation is based on my own educated guesses. I’m not saying this will definitively happen, but I believe it has a markedly high probability if they just cap gil at 99m and do little else. It’s a band-aid over a gut wound that will slowly infect and turn gangrene. I sincerely hope they have some additional answer that I’ve yet to see or that they change their minds and implement a proper adjustment that is fair to all parties. This is just food for thought, or rather, a full three-course dinner due to its length.

TL;DR – This is a poor adjustment, it fixes nothing while attempting to penalize players who have worked hard to amass gil. There are many reasons why somebody wouldn’t spend their gil, and in the end it’s their money to do with as they wish (like saving it). If it’s to thwart RMT; they’ll just find another loophole or glitch and get it all back anyways, the only ‘proven’ method against RMT is constant vigilance.

Dude they aren't decreasing your gil by 10%. They are lowing the max gil cap. you can only hold 99m instead of 999m. The only way you would lose gil is if you have over 99m, but you can prepare for that if you do by shifting that off to alts.

[Tatsuguy]

Dude they aren't decreasing your gil by 10%. They are lowing the max gil cap. you can only hold 99m instead of 999m. The only way you would lose gil is if you have over 99m, but you can prepare for that if you do by shifting that off to alts.

Lol did you even read what he said at the first part or at all lol?

[Kestiel]

Lol did you even read what he said at the first part or at all lol?

<_< Clearly they didn't. I pretty specifically covered that and why it's bad. Though I do appreciate that other people possess the cognitive faculties for reading comprehension and the temperament to read through multiple paragraphs!