Class System Blues

[Renen]

This would kinda be the problem. Just stop doing that. This is not XI. For the love of god we understand as FF fans that every successive game is a lot different than the last. Why should XI and XIV be an exception? I didnt play FF8 and bitch and moan about how there's no omnislash, no knights of the round, and that shit was generally different. The same with XI, with X, with all of them really. Why oh why MUST you compare them? This is assuming, of course, that you are an FF fan. If you're not I totally understand why you're doing what you're doing.


I can count the number of times my WHM had Banish in Final Fantasy....on one hand. Probably less than that. I can't speak for the early early titles since i didnt play them, but I dont remember Banish in 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, or XIII. Jus sayin. Not so sure about XIII as I never finished it.

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.
Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

[Lux_Rayna]

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.

Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

[Renen]

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

[Paddle]

But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

You know I posted my concerns about this. I've been a healer for the past 10 years. Little worried with looking at the list of what whm could do. I would like more abilities in my arsenal. However! It got me thinking...I mean cap level is only at 50 right now. I would imagine that 2.0 is going to tweak/add abilities. After Yoshida increases the level cap, all classes/jobs will have more depth to them.