What are your thoughts on 2.0's summoning system?

[MysteriousRonin]

So basically he turned the Final Fantasy Summoner into the same Summoner class that almost every other MMO has...

As if screwing up Bard and the whole class system wasn't bad enough.

I want to summon the main Summoner summons that I have summoned on my Summoner in almost every Final Fantasy, they should just add the exceptionally powerful ones or the cool FFXII Zodiac ones to the LS/FC summoning system.

[MysteriousRonin]

i do feel it cheapen their value to have personal avatar, for example a goat defeating ifrit? lol it looked silly in FFXI and would be here too.

In FFXI It makes sense that a Summoner summoning an avatar would only be able to summon it as the same strength as the Summoner. Summoners are basically channeling the avatar into the world through them, hence the constant MP drain and the avatar being the same level as the Summoner.

[Mijin]

Stop overreacting to interview answers and wait until we have an opportunity to see this idea in the flesh (so to speak).

Well from these two interviews we know a lot, and it's possible to pass judgment on what we do know. Here are the facts:

A: Primal fights are going to be highly competitive. You're going to have to go up against everyone else to get one.

B: Only one Free Company/Linkshell can possess the ability to summon each primal at a time.

C: There will be some sort of activity(s) that the members of the Free Company/Linkshell holding a primal's summoning ability must do in order to build "Points" to be able to summon it. It's been mentioned that this may take up to two weeks, but that's subject to change.

D: As it is now, the Free Company/Linkshell can only hold a primal for two weeks.

E: When the primal is summoned the world will have some sort of graphical reaction, and everyone will be aware that one has been summoned all over Eorza.

That's a lot of information to make a judgment on. If players are going to hate this system, it's a lot better that the devs know now rather than when it's too late to do much to change it... Like when we're already in the beta phase.

What this game needs more than anything is creative ideas

This is a side note as it's not directly related to the topic, but I strongly disagree with this. People often throw around catch phrases like this without actually thinking about what they're saying. "Creative Ideas" run the risk of failure, what this game needs more than anything is to follow the ideas set in place by its predecessors that we already know work. While innovation has it's place, you don't always need to try to reinvent the wheel...

The worst sequels of any genre are many times poorly received because they were undesirably far too different from their predecessors. Here's a cool video on the subject. All of the games in that video have one thing in common; they're too different from the original, and guess who's number 7 on the list.

Some of you may remember Mario 2 for the NES. Mario 2 was poorly received because it was so radically different than Mario 1. The reason was because it was actually not even a Mario game, and it was just labeled as one so it would sell better in North America. Mario 3 on the other hand, brought us what fans were expecting. All of the elements of Mario 1 were in Mario 3, but with more bells and whistles. Mario 3 was the best selling game of all time.

What this game needs right now isn't innovation... It needs is to bring back what fans expect from the series. There is no logical reason to decide, "Hmmm FFXI was very successful, and fans loved many things about it. Let's make everything completely different in FFXIV and cross our fingers." I think too many developers try to make new concepts, and then hope that they'll work so they can put on their portfolio, "Oh look what I came up with." (paraphrasing)

This is the formula for a successful sequel:
Copy what players loved about the prequel, Get rid of what they didn't, and add a little innovation here and there.

This seems to be SE's formula:
Make everything exoticly different and hope people like it. When it doesn't work change directors, make everything exotically different some more, and hope it works harder.

[KoujiGeki]

what we need is actual Summoner class/job info! tired of see interviews about the free company summons

[Andrien]

summoner system

There should be rules to counter exploits. One way to avoid misuse of the system is to put cool down timers and let the summoner mp pool dry up after a special. I also think the summons should have an mp pool of their own so they wont share the same mp pool as the summoner.

I also think the summoner system should have a loyalty system so the pet effectiveness can increase by the number of usage. It will also be cool if one or a few can get jealous if you keep choosing one frequently over the others and they may disobey an order.


I want summoners to utilize their pets completely by making them more dynamic and more involved. For example in FF12 when you summon an Esper they're on a time limit, and it'll automatically unleashed their special attack when their timer is up or when their health is to low, and then they'll auto release. I think that is more fun then just calling one out to do one TP attack or a buff and then releasing it.




regarding Primal deities

Finally I also like the idea of what Yoshi-P is going with regarding the group effort to summon Primal deities. Just the idea of open world roaming Primals to capture and use their power for one time is a big accomplishment. I have no doubt I'll see all the summons from past final fantasy games and maybe if we're lucky we'll get a new unique summon. When you add all the summons from FF1 through FF14 you'll see that there is a lot to choose from over the original Primal deities.

[Fensfield]

Really, I think it's a fascinating idea with a lot of potential. I'm also glad that the eventual summoner class will still be around with access to other spirits, 'would have been disappointed otherwise (also, remember there's more than one traditional FF spirit for certain things. We could say, have Quetzalcoatl as the primal of lightning, and Ramuh as the spirit called on by individual Summoners).

That said, I think the 'once you've got it, you have to use it inside a week' element is a bit disappointing. 'Guarding it' so it can't be used against you is an interesting strategy in and of itself, and lends more personality to free companies.

I realise there are balance issues to that, but at the same time, a time limit strikes me as very lazy - surely the better way to go about it would have been to make the primal one of the most difficult things about a free company to maintain and the easiest to lose in the event of an attack. Say, having to maintain a poorly defensible temple in order to hang onto it.

If nothing else I hope they examine that issue down the road.

[Viritess]

Really, I think it's a fascinating idea with a lot of potential.

That said, I think the 'one you've got it, you have to use it inside a week' element is a bit disappointing. 'Guarding it' so it can't be used against you is an interesting strategy in and of itself, and lends more personality to free companies.

I realise there are balance issues to that, but at the same time, a time limit strikes me as very lazy - surely the better way to go about it would have been to make the primal one of the most difficult things about a free company to maintain and the easiest to lose in the event of an attack. Say, having to maintain a poorly defensible temple in order to hang onto it.

If nothing else I hope they examine that issue down the road.

Not that i don't agree keeping it from others could be a fun strategy, but if FF14 isn't open PVP, then without a countermeasure to attempt to force its use theres no real strategy to it. Grabbing a summon and throwing it in your pocket for the life cycle of the game is hardly what i'd call strategy.

If you can't put enough pressure on a Free Company to try and force its use, you may aswell have it disappear after non use, you may think lazy, but i think "The power of the card to hold Ifrit at bay is weakening. Quickly now, use his power for your self before he uses it to free himself!" etc etc ^^

(Withholding something only one can have at a time is a very fun mechanic, for PVP centric and sandbox style MMOs, not so much, ones like FF14)

[Mijin]

I'm also glad that the eventual summoner class will still be around with access to other spirits, 'would have been disappointed otherwise

What gives you that idea? Absolutely no official comments have been made on the addition of any new jobs. Any time Yoshida is asked about it he refuses to answer. As far as we currently know, SMN will never be added to the game. The only hint we ever got that they were even considering it was a player poll.

[Dawiichan]

What gives you that idea? Absolutely no official comments have been made on the addition of any new jobs. Any time Yoshida is asked about it he refuses to answer. As far as we currently know, SMN will never be added to the game. The only hint we ever got that they were even considering it was a player poll.

I'm almost positive they've said musketeer is going to be added and that summoner will be able to summon lesser primals, carbuncle being one of them. Now, to find the interviews.

[Fensfield]

What gives you that idea? Absolutely no official comments have been made on the addition of any new jobs. Any time Yoshida is asked about it he refuses to answer. As far as we currently know, SMN will never be added to the game. The only hint we ever got that they were even considering it was a player poll.

I'm almost positive they've said musketeer is going to be added and that summoner will be able to summon lesser primals, carbuncle being one of them. Now, to find the interviews.

Yep, that's what I'm referencing and all. Good luck finding them, I couldn't so I'll be interested to see the wording again. But I'm certain the dev's said as much.

But yeah, they have definitely mentioned Summoner as a class summoning lesser entities (I don't believe they specifically said 'primals', only that they won't be summoning the ones the companies can deploy). And just to counter Mijin's 'absolutely no comments' bit, a rep' dropped a hint about one lined up for post-2.0 just last week.