Would you like to see the current stat system revised or redone for FFXIV 2.0?

[Camate]

Snurble here in your thread~!

I wanted to give you some details on what's being planned for stats in A Realm Reborn.

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

For crafting, the stats in A Realm Reborn will have a greater influence than now, and for gathering, the requirements to obtain HQ items will be visible!

[Velhart]

Snurble here in your thread~!

I wanted to give you some details on what's being planned for stats in A Realm Reborn.

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

For crafting, the stats in A Realm Reborn will have a greater influence than now, and for gathering, the requirements to obtain HQ items will be visible!

Loving it, thank you for taking time to respond to this.

[carraway]

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing [...]

I appreciate you taking the time to address some concerns, Camate, but this doesn't make much sense to me. The reason why a x3 (or higher) meld hat with INT, for example, is so valuable is precisely because "when players add large amounts of INT" the damage visibly increases. Same goes for a few other stats, like physical crit atk power. I was unaware of any underlying mechanic where 1 point of INT from point allocation differed from 1 point of INT on gear. Are you saying that we're going to see our characters get large commensurate boosts in base stats after 2.0, so that proportionately the gains from gear aren't as noticeable?

I do hope, along with other posters in this thread, that mechanics are given more transparency in 2.0 and beyond. By doing so, the developers empower the playerbase to make the kinds of interesting and analytical choices that lead to more diverse gameplay.

[Cichy]

Snurble here in your thread~!

I wanted to give you some details on what's being planned for stats in A Realm Reborn.

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

For crafting, the stats in A Realm Reborn will have a greater influence than now, and for gathering, the requirements to obtain HQ items will be visible!

The part about gear stats sounds incredibly stupid. Gear checks are a good part of an MMO and give players something to strive for. Shooting themselves in the foot yet again, /grin

[Duelle]

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

Display evasion rates as in player evasion or monster evasion relative to the player's accuracy? If it's the latter, then this might create an issue on a player end. I'd actually preffer to know what the magic cap for accuracy would be instead of constantly eyeballing numbers and wondering if you're stacking too much accuracy. It certainly made gearing less of a headache.

I have no issue with Evasion, magic evasion Crit attak power on gear. the question is will they make those skills relevant for the situations those jobs are in. If they insist on making all Boss PYS attacks un evadeable. then just remove evasion. But if you can evade say, Coincounters 100-ton swing. and stack some evasion. that would be a positive route to evasion becoming a interesting stat to have.

More stats thrown into the mix = more chance for exploitation. Utsusemi tanking was largely backed by evasion-stacking. Rogues in WoW eventually figured out how to stack evasion to allow them to tank raid bosses. That's just two examples.

The one reason i kind of like how they have split up Crit stats is because when you have a base Crit does x2. then the tweaking of crit chance has to be down behind the scenes or everyone just stacks crit chance

This can be countered or worked around by designing classes and jobs with mechanics that rely on critical hits.

With what they have now, you can stack crit chance. but your crits wont be huge, or you can stack crit atk power, and have less crits that hit harder. Or find your sweet spot where you like it. As a crit enthusiest, i like that choice. Plenty of games do the base x2 type of crit. And you'll often see on patches "Crit chance of X adjusted" because thats how they dial down your double damage.

The only time I've seen crit values adjusted under the x2 system is when crit rating on gear gets ridiculously high accross the board instead of just for the classes with mechanics that rely on crits.

[Viritess]

Display evasion rates as in player evasion or monster evasion relative to the player's accuracy? If it's the latter, then this might create an issue on a player end. I'd actually preffer to know what the magic cap for accuracy would be instead of constantly eyeballing numbers and wondering if you're stacking too much accuracy. It certainly made gearing less of a headache.

More stats thrown into the mix = more chance for exploitation. Utsusemi tanking was largely backed by evasion-stacking. Rogues in WoW eventually figured out how to stack evasion to allow them to tank raid bosses. That's just two examples.

This can be countered or worked around by designing classes and jobs with mechanics that rely on critical hits.

The only time I've seen crit values adjusted under the x2 system is when crit rating on gear gets ridiculously high accross the board instead of just for the classes with mechanics that rely on crits.

Firstly love the good discussion going on here. I think your last point about crit adjustment is the exact reason i enjoy having them seperate. If we remove the other aspects we could gear for crit, then its only a matter of time when crit does get adjusted, because we will have almost no crit stat to stack besides Crit chance.

In my opinion its self fulfilling with such a change. If you make crit into a single stat, to make crit feel like its doing anything at a certain point (lets say lvl 50 with full AF) then when you start getting better gear, or multi melding, your crit will be high, which in turn means that an adjustment is coming when either new gear comes, level cap rises etc.

Thats in part why i support the current crit stats since they assist in keeping the overall damage in check, and would in general, require much more minor adjustments if needed.

As to using evasion as an exploit. I can understand stacking X means an evasion heavy class can do alot of broken things. Though i'm not familiar with your first example, i am familar with the second. I think its much better for us to instead of looking at it as its been used badly before, get rid of it to how could that be avoided in the future?

For instance if we discuss the merits of Evasion being a "gear only stat" and reciving no benifits from classes? Thus any evasion numbers would be kept within a certain range. Apply acc vs evasion modifiers for boss vs player? Maybe some extra ACC depending on distance from a boss during attack? (Higher chance of evasion when 4 yalms from boss then 2?) In essense engineering evasion to be something that works better during escape of an attack range, then a "stand there and dodge it" stat?

To me this type of discussion could be more fruitful to all involved then just Evasion or no evasion because we discuss how we as a playerbase would like to see Evasion work. Yes/no discussions rarely spark any ideas. We should look at the examples you provided and try to find the mechanic that can then make such an exploit/use less, Useful?

[Duelle]

If you make crit into a single stat, to make crit feel like its doing anything at a certain point (lets say lvl 50 with full AF) then when you start getting better gear, or multi melding, your crit will be high, which in turn means that an adjustment is coming when either new gear comes, level cap rises etc.

It would happen either way. It's more a matter of how long you can hold off until you HAVE to make the adjustment. If XIV doesn't do any crazy stat cimbs when they raise the level cap, then it probably can go about 9 years or more without needing adjustments I would think.

As to using evasion as an exploit. I can understand stacking X means an evasion heavy class can do alot of broken things. Though i'm not familiar with your first example, i am familar with the second. I think its much better for us to instead of looking at it as its been used badly before, get rid of it to how could that be avoided in the future?

The way Utsusemi tanking worked in FFXI is that a Ninja would have to stack evasion, have a gear swap macro for Blade: Retsu, and rely on their elemental Ninjutsu to gain and keep hate. The reason for the evasion stacking was because misses by the enemy meant that Utsusemi shadows were not being consumed.

Personally, evasion should be a tank stat, but standalone rather than linked to the primary stats (STR, AGI, DEX, VIT, MND, INT, etc). It should ideally be the lowest scaling tank stat (Block > Defense > Evasion for PLD, Parry > Defense > Evasion for WAR), and work so that against normal mobs you can fully evade attacks, but against bosses and NMs succesful evades turn into Glancing Blows (you take part of the damage anyway, turning evasion into a mitigation stat against bosses and NMs).

Something that we also seem to be missing with regard to clear stat caps and diminishing returns is that in exchange people have a goal to work towards instead of playing guessing games.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Snurble here in your thread~!

I wanted to give you some details on what's being planned for stats in A Realm Reborn.

In regards to battle-related stats, it is currently possible to receive large boosts from stats on equipment, while character stats do not have as much of an effect. For example, equipping items with multiple materia melded to it will allow players to become quite powerful. In A Realm Reborn, we are planning to make adjustments so that the ratio of influence from character stats and from gear stats is 1:1. With this, having 5 materia melded onto a single item won’t elicit as large of a difference like it does currently.

Similarly in the current version, even when players add large amounts of INT and STR via equipment with multiple materia and such, it may feel like damage is not increasing and this is due to a damage range that has been set. Fundamentally, battle related stats fluctuate based on the level difference between enemies, and this is also why we are not planning to display evasion rates and other things.

For crafting, the stats in A Realm Reborn will have a greater influence than now, and for gathering, the requirements to obtain HQ items will be visible!

Why not just have Evasion etc stats like other games do it? Example: Evasion % against level 50 Monsters or 51 or 52. That way we would have a better idea what the stat is if we want to raise it or lower it, and we can do the math ourselves if you just give us the base information based on equal level or maybe a little higher level enemy. We would obviously know that it might be 5% on a 52 Monster and it would be higher than that slightly on things just under that range, and vice versa.

Just an idea, I really like to see all my stats. Having it on my gear and not seeing how it actually effects my character is kind of annoying.

[Jynx]

Why not just have Evasion etc stats like other games do it? Example: Evasion % against level 50 Monsters or 51 or 52.

Mainly because a monsters level does not purely dictate it's stats.

[Duelle]

Mainly because a monsters level does not purely dictate it's stats.

It does determine how much you and the mob are affected by level correction, though. If all your endgame raids are gonna have mobs between 0-3 levels higher than your current level cap, you can plausibly have stat caps to work towards. Which affects DPS and tanks directly.

Back to the stats, I agree that the numbers should be reworked and more transparent. In FFXI (launch - 2006/7) +5 Accuracy for example meant something. That 5 accuracy could honestly be the difference between being gimp and being properly geared.

+5 Accuracy was also stupidly rare and expensive as such. I don't want to go back to that era again.