Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Rokien]

As of right now I have no faith in Yoshi and the reason being is: leveling with quest and dungeon (instances). I dont like quest leveling and I dont like instanced content. I prefer different place to camp and kill mobs. If Yoshi tends to do quests and dungeons to level that they stand to lose more players. Utimately if Yoshi dosent balance all content open world, exp grinds at camps, quest etc FFXIV will be the 1st Final Fantasy title to sink like a ship!

This!~~~~~~~~~~~`

[Carzilla]

Best post in the whole forum +100

[Shurrikhan]

And, if those systems were added on top of already additional systems, would you be as upset?

You can grind for EXP. You can Quest for EXP, you can Raid for EXP. It sounds like he's jut creating options for people and that there's finally sufficient reward for those who prefer to spend their time out adventuring rather than hitting up the same monster types again and again. I mean, that's ok if that's your thing, but for too long other methods have been inefficient for leveling purposes.

Yoshi makes a presumption for what players will be doing in the game, but by no means dose he think 100% of the playerbase will follow the formula. It's a statistical impossibility.

So then I guess the question becomes, given limited and shared resources, what is the quality methodology in adding content: covering the largest percentage of the playerbase for a content any-way-you-like community or really acing some key aspects? What lines of thought might make the most out of those resources?

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Edit: Though this is probably obvious from most posts I've written, I would never suggest a sheer cost-efficiency mindset for ideas made on the forums, especially since making ideas would normally cost SE time (and therefore money) but is here free.

[Hyrist]

So then I guess the question becomes, given limited and shared resources, what is the quality methodology in adding content: covering the largest percentage of the playerbase for a content any-way-you-like community or really acing some key aspects? What lines of thought might make the most out of those resources?

-----------------

Edit: Though this is probably obvious from most posts I've written, I would never suggest a sheer cost-efficiency mindset for ideas made on the forums, especially since making ideas would normally cost SE time (and therefore money) but is here free.

Why settle for either one? Why not land both?

You may excuse me for a bit of naievty here, but I'm not speaking my view, I'm speaking Yoshida's. He's set out to make "the best mmo" that means both nailing down the content, AND appealing to the wide aduiance. Can he pull it off? I don't bleive so, but if he makes great strides in the attempt, and the game is better for it, then I am not going to push against that approach.

World of Warcraft hit its success coming after FFXI, which came out at the trailing edge of the Everquest era of MMOs. However, if market is any indication, we're now at the trailing edge of WoW's MMO era. We have the advantage to look at other MMOs, see what was done right, what was done wrong, and what hasn't been done - and that's a great place to be when you're completely remaking a game that already has a small established fan base.

Yoshida's policy is pretty clear here - he's not setteling for less. He, however foolish the idea may be cost wise, is fully intending on keeping his entire crew after redevelopment to continually crank out new content and systems after 2.0 launch. The content updates we've been given these past six months have been handed to us by a mere fraction of the full team. And the remaining people on the team has been working tirelessly on a gaming engine that is better both for players and for them to continue development with.

If Yoshi is intending on keeping that crew even after redevelopment, I don't think cost efficiency is in his venue here.

If I was taking a guess, he wants to create a wide berth of systems to cover as many playstyles as he can get, and then develop upon them in a way that keeps the players interested, as well as encouraging people to experiment around with the differing systems of the game.

We'll see how it pans out. I'm skeptical of his ability to maintain the momentum he has. But my faith in the man's vision? Rock solid. He's downright ambitious and idealistic to boot - my kind of guy. He well knows that this game can be his golden ticket to video game fame, or the shackles that will always make him a laughing stock of the industry. With that kind of pressure, you don't sleep much, and you must definitely do not pull your punches.

He might get knocked around by his superiors and have some of his people taken away form him, which will slow down his progress, but it won't stop him. I've no doubt that Yoshi-P will not stop until he's made a game that we are continually delighted and amazed over, or someone pulls the plug on him while he's trying.

[XxOstiaxX]

^^^ You put so much faith in a guy that has showed little to no results, and no i do not dislike yoshida, i just find it mind blowing, how a guy get praised to the heavens for writing silly letters about what will come 2 years from said released letter, i have yet to see an update where he or his team shows they are going beyond what any developer out there in the industry would go to please us or win us back, every update so far, has been what lackluster if compared to any other MMO, and sure you can as always use the "2.0 excuse" or the infamous "Server limit etc etc one"

If 2.0 is just a server switch and a restart of the crappy story of 1.0 i will be disappointed, for i am expecting a huge influx of content across all levels, and i do not mean 1 quest every 10 levels, and the same 5 quest on repeat for the next 2 years until an expansion hits.

[Jynx]

You may well be jaded yourself having rushed levels as a THM -and I am going to have to say that it is a high possibility that it is coloring your perspective of the game.

Would it help you if I said it took me less than a week to level monk? Although this is in a solo/duo/party scenario. 1-20 solo 20-30 duo 30+ party *Without a Powerlevel mind you* and 40+ was just a facerolled blurr.

Please don't assume that I'm talking out of my arse I am well aware of the terrible situation the leveling is in this game. It's been brought up on more than several occasions that leveling if dedicated enough has been completed in a single day. You keep talking about people being able to "Go back" to old lower level content and I wonder that if the game stays the way it is why people would even bother.

What is the reward for them? What is the point of it being lower level relevant when the leveling experience is almost litteraly pointless in the scheme of things. You can't just give thousands of "Choices" and call it a day and tell anyone who presents the "Whats the point?" and give them "But you have CHOICES GUYS" choices are useless unless they have any sort of hearty meaning to them.

I'm not asking for the game to be a gut wrenching marathon to get to the endgame but as it stands it's rediculous to even call it leveling in the first place.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

^^^ You put so much faith in a guy that has showed little to no results, and no i do not dislike yoshida, i just find it mind blowing, how a guy get praised to the heavens for writing silly letters about what will come 2 years from said released letter, i have yet to see an update where he or his team shows they are going beyond what any developer out there in the industry would go to please us or win us back, every update so far, has been what lackluster if compared to any other MMO, and sure you can as always use the "2.0 excuse" or the infamous "Server limit etc etc one"

If 2.0 is just a server switch and a restart of the crappy story of 1.0 i will be disappointed, for i am expecting a huge influx of content across all levels, and i do not mean 1 quest every 10 levels, and the same 5 quest on repeat for the next 2 years until an expansion hits.

Have you seriously not been following the game since Yoshi-P has taken over? He has done tons of things with the current crappy game engine that are successful. Of course nothing mind blowing yet but that is because it would be a total waste to do so, he is putting that stuff into 2.0, the screen shots alone with all the things coming with 2.0 is mind blowing in itself but since you need to see to believe then just wait for 2.0 beta it is just around the corner.

Though I guess arguing the point is fruitless because you are going to refuse any point anyone else makes til you see it for yourself.

[Dragon]

It's funny cause the people that are running sweaty in the heat agonizing in their suits rushing to their destination
will eventually end up being at the same spot with those who are walking relaxed wearing their shorts and straw hat, sipping on ice cold lemonade while enjoying the pretty trees and flowers.

So funny.

Peeps want to do endgame tho and that is also understandable.
Theres nothing to do as a lowbie other than level up ur jobs really... and thats boring!

Yup.

So, according to this, the devs shouldn't focus on low-/mid-level content because it can become obsolete?
What about new players who come in periodically?
What about people that want to level a 2nd and 3rd job?
What about the so glorified end-game content that gets obsolete?
Once you have all weapons/ gear of a certain kind?

Oh, and why not just shut down the servers now. I mean, sooner or later this game will be dead anyway, we just don't know when! lol

That logic, at least for me, is fundamentally flawed.

You're exactly right. We may as well have no leveling/achievement/etc. process at all, nothing that makes a game a decent game. If we're to treat 1-49 as just the pre-game, and 50 as the end-all/be-all, no one will ever bother to stop at midgame making the "endgame or no-game" mentality become a self-fulfilling prophecy (as has been shown in every single modern-day MMO).

[Nazrakin]

^^^ You put so much faith in a guy that has showed little to no results, and no i do not dislike yoshida, i just find it mind blowing, how a guy get praised to the heavens for writing silly letters about what will come 2 years from said released letter, i have yet to see an update where he or his team shows they are going beyond what any developer out there in the industry would go to please us or win us back, every update so far, has been what lackluster if compared to any other MMO, and sure you can as always use the "2.0 excuse" or the infamous "Server limit etc etc one"

If 2.0 is just a server switch and a restart of the crappy story of 1.0 i will be disappointed, for i am expecting a huge influx of content across all levels, and i do not mean 1 quest every 10 levels, and the same 5 quest on repeat for the next 2 years until an expansion hits.

Again, if you don't have faith that Yoshida can turn this thing around, why are you here? You're not happy with the current state of the game, you're not happy with the direction it is headed... Why not waste your time and money looking for something you can enjoy?

The fact that these guys were willing to admit they screwed up and attempt to completely rebuild the game is absolutely something that you don't see often. If you look around most other MMOs in this situation they have either been shut down entirely or forced to go f2p. If 2.0 doesnt succeed then I doubt the team will get a third chance. For that reason alone all of us better have a little faith and hope that Yoshida can pull it off.

[Nazrakin]

Why settle for either one? Why not land both?

You may excuse me for a bit of naievty here, but I'm not speaking my view, I'm speaking Yoshida's. He's set out to make "the best mmo" that means both nailing down the content, AND appealing to the wide aduiance. Can he pull it off? I don't bleive so, but if he makes great strides in the attempt, and the game is better for it, then I am not going to push against that approach.

World of Warcraft hit its success coming after FFXI, which came out at the trailing edge of the Everquest era of MMOs. However, if market is any indication, we're now at the trailing edge of WoW's MMO era. We have the advantage to look at other MMOs, see what was done right, what was done wrong, and what hasn't been done - and that's a great place to be when you're completely remaking a game that already has a small established fan base.

Yoshida's policy is pretty clear here - he's not setteling for less. He, however foolish the idea may be cost wise, is fully intending on keeping his entire crew after redevelopment to continually crank out new content and systems after 2.0 launch. The content updates we've been given these past six months have been handed to us by a mere fraction of the full team. And the remaining people on the team has been working tirelessly on a gaming engine that is better both for players and for them to continue development with.

If Yoshi is intending on keeping that crew even after redevelopment, I don't think cost efficiency is in his venue here.

If I was taking a guess, he wants to create a wide berth of systems to cover as many playstyles as he can get, and then develop upon them in a way that keeps the players interested, as well as encouraging people to experiment around with the differing systems of the game.

We'll see how it pans out. I'm skeptical of his ability to maintain the momentum he has. But my faith in the man's vision? Rock solid. He's downright ambitious and idealistic to boot - my kind of guy. He well knows that this game can be his golden ticket to video game fame, or the shackles that will always make him a laughing stock of the industry. With that kind of pressure, you don't sleep much, and you must definitely do not pull your punches.

He might get knocked around by his superiors and have some of his people taken away form him, which will slow down his progress, but it won't stop him. I've no doubt that Yoshi-P will not stop until he's made a game that we are continually delighted and amazed over, or someone pulls the plug on him while he's trying.

Fantastically said. I think the fact that he intends to keep his full team is just proof that he has a pretty good grip on that problem WOW is facing. It isn't that Warcraft is a terrible game -- its that Blizzard isn't simply isn't able to put out content fast enough. Part of that is that many members of the team have been moved to other projects, namely Titan.