Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Nazrakin]

I follow a reallllllly simple concept. If a game isn't fun I *gasp* don't play it.
So instead of making an MMO where you have fun while you play you find it okay to have fun at the end?

I cannot even fathom how one would come to such a conclusion. It defies everything a game (made to entertain, mind you) stands for.
Would you buy a single player game that bores you to tears because the last 10% are finally worth being played?

Gamers really have changed then within the last decade and not for the better from my point of view.

The truth is that "end game" is a lie. For most people it is far from the end of the game, they're probably going to spend 70% of their time at level cap vs the journey of 1-49. That is why there is such an emphasis on the "end game" in MMOs.

[Payadopa]

The truth is that "end game" is a lie. For most people it is far from the end of the game, they're probably going to spend 70% of their time at level cap vs the journey of 1-49. That is why there is such an emphasis on the "end game" in MMOs.

Very true. Still, new players must progress through it first. Even if there is flying unicorns and rainbows at the end of the road, if a player quits, he's probably gone for good. And just allowing players to speed through it is not adressing the core problem.

[Airget]

To be honest an rpg is about the journey in which you level while taking in the story, so what would be so wrong to be able to do quest and follow a plot while you level? I can understand why he wants to get rid of the whole grind on x mobs and chain them to reach 50 because what kind of journey is that, that's just a Rocky montage cue the music! You train and train and train then bam you're ready for the big endgame but you didn't really do anything engaging to get to that point.

I think one thing that may be missed from the idea of progressing through story is the idea that more class quest will be added which test the users abilities with their current skillset so there could be challenges had with that in mind. Or perhaps even challenges where you start with less HP, MP, attribute, spell recast is doubled etc. They could be VERY creative with the leveling process through quest it doesn't have to be a straight line it could be a wavy line of multiple challenges and handicaps put on the user to really test their skills and make them a better player when endgame comes.

You have less HP, well you are more focused on keeping your HP up as well as dispatching the weakest enemies as quick as possible.
You have less MP, you are more cautious about using strong spell so you focus on the cheaper ones and figure out the best method to dispatch the foes in front of you.

There really is a lot they can do with it so hopefully they are creative with quest and it does have that "rpg" like story feel where sometimes you are handicapped in a given situation which would not only add tension in said fight but also help to make players better skillwise since it would challenge them to have to come up with different battle methods or to be able to perform certain battle strategies based on the guides they read.

[Asgardx]

If 2.0 is a bunch of quest hubs. I will take my subscription else where. Part of the reason I play this game is the feel of the world and if towns / cool locations are just turned into crappy quest hubs it makes the world feel empty and shallow. Please - im begging you S.E - do not make quest hubs. I dont mind if lvling is based on content if the content is meaningful (story lines) and through dungeons but quest hubs are -not- content in my eyes. Content is too good of a word for what quest hubs are and do to MMORPGs. /end rant

[Jinko]

If 2.0 is a bunch of quest hubs. I will take my subscription else where.

Where you going to take them when ever other MMO is like that, I hope that 2.0 is quest hubs personally, I have been hoping for this since they first announced settlements.

if towns / cool locations are just turned into crappy quest hubs it makes the world feel empty and shallow.

What cool locations are you referring to ? they all look and feel the same.

but quest hubs are -not- content in my eyes. Content is too good of a word for what quest hubs are and do to MMORPGs. /end rant

Of course its content, thats like saying side quests aren't content, sure it might not be content you are interested in, if thats the case just don't do it.

[Jinko]

Paya MMO's don't follow the standards seen in single player games, the reason why the majority of fun is at end game is because that's where the majority end up.

It's worth mentioning stuff like Easy Ifrit/Garuda and Toto-rak most of the time gets face-rolled by 1 lvl 50 player who helping out, many times I have seen comments such as "it's dead ?, I'm still in the cutscene!"

Would you buy a single player game that bores you to tears because the last 10% are finally worth being played?

How is that relevant ? mmo's are built upon via patches and expansions, there is no last 10%, in a few years when they raise level cap there will be plenty of mid level content.

I follow a reallllllly simple concept. If a game isn't fun I *gasp* don't play it.

Interestingly you play this < this is sarcasm

[Payadopa]

Interestingly you play this < this is sarcasm

Nice one with the colour. lol

The fun fact is, I only play this game when a patch comes out, then I usually don't bother with it (maybe like once every three weeks). I've seen progess I like, though, so I'm staying. Can't neglect 6 years of XI-ness.
I'm only Lala .... human!

Oh and I already told my LS that I won't level another class to 50. After WHM I tried ARC and did some leves but no. Not for the life of me. Not again. The first time had at least some novelty to it. lol

And instead of speeding up the process we should reward MMO developers who actually care for the journey as much as the destination.

[Hyrist]

And instead of speeding up the process we should reward MMO developers who actually care for the journey as much as the destination.

Kay, I don't see the conflict here.

SWTOR had a good pacing of leveling and it filled that leveling process full of content. The problem there was the endgame severely lacked and there was no feeling of reward of going back and helping those leveling multiple characters or just leveling slower.

As an alternative, we could implement a system where you opt out of a portion of your experience for some other reward, like more gil, GC seals, or something that would reward a player more in a different area, by leveling more slowly. Sort of an Opt Out for quick EXP gains.

I think it's funny how someone else can post this. but if Rokien did it we'd all punch him in the face because he's a douche.

Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

[SuzakuCMX]

Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

He also wants more grind and for it to last longer and require groups.

[Onisake]

Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

ehhh, having been on the internet for a number of years, i don't think he is beligerant as much as very strong in his opinions. seeing some people argue about nothing on 4chan has made me pretty immune to that kind of thing. He's a douche. we all know it. but some of the stuff he says i agree with, regardless of who started it and who he stole the idea from. if its something i like i'll throw my support behind it.

He also wants more grind and for it to last longer and require groups.

some people like grind. NA players generally don't. he's in the minority. let him ask for it. it's not like SE is going to add it in just to please him. they'll do it because the majority of the playerbase is asking for it, or it's the direction they want to take the game.

i do not mind requiring groups. as long as there is incentive for repeating. this is not a solo game. most content should require groups.