Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Nazrakin]

I think that the "quest hub" style leveling is definitely more interesting than npc grinding. Where games like WOW have failed, is that they often punish grouping in such a way that its never actually faster. There is a lot that can be done to make questing group friendly...

1. No exp penalties. If you'd get 500exp for killing a mob solo, you should get 500 for killing it in a group.
2. Zone bosses. Similar to the dynamic zone bosses in GW2 -- except that they should require some amount of coordination. Have them award large exp point bonuses and loot chests for every participant.
3. Level-up Dungeons that do not require a "holy trinity". The key here is that you and any group of friends can get together and just do a dungeon instead of spending hours looking for a tank and/or healer. You make it fun by focusing the challenge on avoiding traps and mob mechanics than just needing to heal bomb the tank.
4. We know that Behest are being redone. My hope is that it becomes entirely "open world" and the quest hub is truly under siege. They could encourage player participation by including a zone wide buff for successful defense. Again, it should require coordination and strategy so that players have to communicate to succeed.

These are all old ideas and things that have been done before. In Guild Wars 2 there's these huge bosses in the zone that require grouping but everyone just dog piles on top of it and spams 1+2. All these game have instances but you often can't find anyone to heal or tank so a lot of folks just don't bother. If the content isn't inviting and doesn't encouraging players to talk to one another then they won't.

All these, supported by a great content finder, would definitely encourage group play. The idea being that you can solo to 50 just fine but you are definitely missing out if you don't group.

[Keres]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo ; ; what is next...auto map running??

Even though I'm not necessarily a huge fan of quest chaining, it's still better IMO than mob grinding for 50 levels. At least this way, there's a chance to enrich you in the lore of the world more directly as you level.

[Shurrikhan]

I think that the "quest hub" style leveling is definitely more interesting than npc grinding. Where games like WOW have failed, is that they often punish grouping in such a way that its never actually faster. There is a lot that can be done to make questing group friendly...

In WoW's case it mostly just needs to be less rigidly quest based. You literally cannot participate with your party if one step behind in a quest chain. If phased, you won't even be able to see them. Make it more free-form when centered around the hubs, instead of all things of interest and progression narrowly slotted into small quests, and the problem's basically solved.

I wouldn't mind hub-based questing, especially seeing as we already have hub-based leve-running and basically hub-based xp-partying. It just needs to have enough freedom, and hopefully those hubs, to an extent, can be anywhere. If my party and I want to go out into the deep wilderness and have something to do there, there really should be at least something -- it doesn't need to have quests or mechanics designed specifically for it, just enough underlying mechanics (game-wide) that it can be wholly interesting.

To be honest I think the underlying mechanics, and then playing by what advantages the game already has (a fairly vast arsenal of NPCs, guilds, and their classes) will be the make-or-break of the game, at least alongside quests that further exploration and plot in new 2.0 world.

[Jynx]

Dear lord...no "Phasing" I don't want to watch my friends dissapear when I walk into a zone that I/they have not finished stuff for yet.

Open world should stay open.

[Hyrist]

1. MMOs without engrossing endgames rapidly die, no matter how much hype they ride in on and no matter how many other good things they have going for them. see: rift, swtor, etc

2. the journey is important, but if you aim to focus on the journey *primarily* then you're basically describing an offline RPG with pretty online chatroom elements. i don't disagree that this game rushes people to the end a bit too fast, but to imply there really shouldn't be an endgame or that an MMO shouldn't advance toward one is completely silly. there must be a balance between the two.

3. why do people who don't have time to play the game feel entitled to as much or more than people who do have time? that doesn't even make sense. it's not logical whatsoever. it's tantamount to me expecting to earn the same yearly salary as you while putting in 1/10th of the hours (or none at all).

anyway, i've said it before and apparently need to say it one hundred thousand times more- as a hardcore gamer, i don't begrudge *you* content. you should have content that caters to you. you should have content that you find engaging, that makes you happy, that makes your gameplay experience feel worthwhile.

but why do you begrudge *me* content?

perhaps i'm misunderstanding the intent of this thread, though.

I agree with this post, but I do want to note that some of those games did their content right in their own respects.

SW:TOR, in particular, had a fairly engrossing storyline that kept you engaged (for me) up until level cap. It also had various sorts of 'at the time' relevant content such as Flashpoints.

Difficulty here is, there was no replayable feeling to this content (no level sync for going back and helping a friend through past instances). Nor was there any insentive for later or endgame players to help.

If FFXIV can emulate SW:TOR's gripping tale of climbing the levels, on top of having an endgame that can sustain it's players (including making content entertaining, easy, and worthwhile to replay). Then they will have hit a goldmine. Especially if their idea of Golden Saucer creates fun sidequests for characters of all levels on top of everything else.

[Dragon]

This will be a short one. I long for a game in which the steps forward are packed with excitement and opportunities for fun. Not a rat-race to the end; the end being the only place where you will be considered someone by your fellow-players. End anti-newbie discrimination, make every level count. Slow down the pace of advancement. Smell the flowers. Struggle with difficult mobs at every level. Enter awesome events at every step.

This is actually more casual-player-friendly than accelerating and stultifying the game, so that almost anybody can get to the "fun-filled end."

End-obsessed game design fosters fascistic behavior in the community. Plus, it rewards the slacker that doesn't want a life, whereas it penalizes the player with the regular life. Making the advancement mechanics super-easy, the way the developers of this game sometimes seem to believe they should, does not improve the chances for anybody: The "Über" get to the end and get bored too early, the casuals never catch up, and are still discriminated.

Fill the world with one thousand Shposheas, only more complex and more attractive; make getting to level 10, 15, 20, 30 real challenges away from the repetitive levequests, and gratify us with oportunities that open up at every stage: Environmental puzzles, mysteriously coded scrolls, incomplete maps, a bit of Myst in Eorzea.

R

http://youtu.be/8Igui65gY5M

[Babydoll]

Even though I'm not necessarily a huge fan of quest chaining, it's still better IMO than mob grinding for 50 levels. At least this way, there's a chance to enrich you in the lore of the world more directly as you level.

I don't mind quest leveling that much...but it takes a bit away from the social aspect of the game. In XI and L2 when grinding on XP mobs I actually had to function in a group as a whole...not just alone. >< It taught me a lot about the game and how my job worked Even in Aion that has quest grinding, you can also make a PT and go into the "strongholds" and do regular exp pt.

But yea this is Final Fantasy...and FF is known for new, innovative ideas and game breaking/changing ideas. That is the standard that Sakeguchi gave that company when he ran it. That is why all the old FF's got very high reviews (And dont forget Chrono Trigger ) because they were so innovative that they changed the way gaming worked.

They would set new high standards for RPG's. That is what I still except from my favorite game company. Now...having the wow/aion quest grinding is far form innovative and game breaking. I except much more from Yoshi and SE. I have high hopes that 2.0 will be like what FF7 did for video games (Not just RPG's) which is why I am hoping it is not just copy/paste system of Aion and wow

[Mudd]

As stated by others:
Option to Quest to 50 at the same pace it would take to party to 50, so either is an option.
Thanks.

[Duelle]

This will be a short one. I long for a game in which the steps forward are packed with excitement and opportunities for fun. Not a rat-race to the end; the end being the only place where you will be considered someone by your fellow-players. End anti-newbie discrimination, make every level count. Slow down the pace of advancement. Smell the flowers. Struggle with difficult mobs at every level. Enter awesome events at every step.

Rose-colored goggles. You are wearing them and need to take them off.

Even if it weren't a rat race by design, people will do everything in their power to turn it into one. Such are the way of things.

[Jynx]

Rose-colored goggles. You are wearing them and need to take them off.

Said the person wearing sunglasses.

Just because some people can't enjoy a good journey doesn't mean the developers need to do everything in their power to prevent those of us do from enjoying one.