Ifrit Extreme....What's Different?

[Madruk]

I've called for local servers for a long time and usually the peanut gallery chimes in calling me a racist xenophobe that's attempting to destroy our global community. Either way however, the slight latency isn't the be all end all of this fight, never has been.

[Elexia]

Even if the lag doesn't make it impossible for people in EU and NA to win, do you guys really think it's all right that what requires very fast reflexes for us, would require just average reflexes for a japanese player to pull off?

Latency will have zero impact on it. It's all in your ability to time and dodge.

[Mirage]

Will it? Why is that?

[JackDaniels]

the peanut gallery chimes in calling me a racist xenophobe that's attempting to destroy our global community

GTFO BIGOT

No really, I understand how you feel completely

[cloverkitty]

There are 3 issues that cause the lag people are complaining about.
1. (The biggest). The performance of your computer and your local internet.
a. Comcast and other cable providers I have used in the past have a horrendous ping time. Do a test and don't just look at your speed look at the ping for both up and down.
b. System performance, many people including myself (until recently) use underpowered or low memory systems. If you are running a core 2 duo or lower then you are borderline depending on your memory resources you connection (processor handles load from the game as well as load from the network and other resources you are using. Memory has a huge affect on this game. If you operate on a 32-bit OS (you are already reducing your performance on this game even with a nice video card), or you are using 4GB or less then then there will be Virtual memory used which will cause the game and network to run even slower. Much of the lag people experience (not all) is caused by lack of ram. Once I upgrade to 8GB it was like night and day, yet that was all I changed.
c. Server lag latency, this would be lowest on the lag issue, however unlike most games out there (WOW, FFXI, etc). Although having local stations would reduce this, in most cases is not the issue. While everything is server side, most of the time spent is dealing with the local connection to the network from the users system, or the hardware they are using.

A. Obviously you cannot do anything about in most areas in the USA.
B. This is probably the area that affects most people. There are numerous people running 32 bit OS which guarantees that you cannot fully address all of the memory available and your system memory is limited to ~3 GB.


As far as local servers, that does not necessarily mean region locked server. FFXI used regional servers, however they all synced to the California and Japanese servers (hence how you saw people from all regions).

I suspect it will be done the same way as it was done with FFXI, the main difference being that many actions are instanced or server side.

2.0 using fewer resources and possibly being less server side may resolve these issues for those with low end systems.

[Lux_Rayna]

Will it? Why is that?

Because it's always been that way. The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency. Its a lie, please stop believing it. I have watched plenty of JP videos, and their bosses have that same weird latency that ours do. It has everything to do with how the game is designed, not ping times. For example, the game does a damage check immediately after a command entry. This is not synced to skill animations, so oftentimes the server will have you damaged well before you even see the skill animating. This is the same across ALL regions and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with pings. Its just a crappy server that is designed to do things in an archaic fashion. If you want to test this out, watch a few JP Garuda runs. You'll see players coming out from behind the rocks before Garuda even does her AOE animation. Why? Because they know that the game does the damage check beforehand. As a result, it all just comes down to timing. If you know when the damage check is, you won't get pwned. Some ppl have suggested using the battle log, but I haven't tried that myself. The point is that latency was never the problem, it was just a convenient excuse used by bad players to cover up the fact that they were sucking.

Whats sad is that everyone ended up believing it, propagating the silly rumors that "JP has an advantage". They never did, they just learned how to play around the odd design. It only has the appearance of being faster, when in actuality, its not. At least not in any practical sense where it would actually make an impact.

[Yukiko]

The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

Sorry, but you are mentally ignoring facts.
Its pure physics that you HAVE TO wait for answer of the servers and the game design supports server side calculations which result in double delay until you get confirmation. The Problem is not only reaction with pressing keys (macro using helps to trick the server) but also positions and damage calculation!

Latency is a problem and saying otherwise is just a lie. Even SE confirmed this fact and they promised with 2.0 a more client based system which reduces latency because less server questions and synchronisation needed.

Have you ever tried loading big files once over LAN, WAN, Countries, worldwide... Selfexplained, you have to wait longer!

In Summary:
JP have ~ 10-30ms
US have ~ 200-250ms
EU have ~ 250-300ms

[Aceofspades]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Network-Delay

Sorry, but you are mentally ignoring facts.
Its pure physics that you HAVE TO wait for answer of the servers and the game design supports server side calculations which result in double delay until you get confirmation. The Problem is not only reaction with pressing keys (macro using helps to trick the server) but also positions and damage calculation!

Latency is a problem and saying otherwise is just a lie. Even SE confirmed this fact and they promised with 2.0 a more client based system which reduces latency because less server questions and synchronisation needed.

Have you ever tried loading big files once over LAN, WAN, Countries, worldwide... Selfexplained, you have to wait longer!

In Summary:
JP have ~ 10-30ms
US have ~ 200-250ms
EU have ~ 250-300ms

yeah, gona have a hard time convinceing the elitiest in this game that belive otherwise. But I guess if you think your shit smells like roses you wouldnt be inclined to admit to anything other then, you rule and the rest of the world are noobs blaming some reasonable difficulties on resonable causes and not owning up to the fact that they are not as awsome as you lol. and when I say "you" I am referring to the elitiest. Just to clear things up. Latiency is one of those outrageously obvoius issues its kinda impossable to claim it dosent exist. Personally I am wowed by the fact that people actually think it dose not exist... /sigh

[Aceofspades]

Because it's always been that way. The most persistent myth of all is that somehow the JP players have no latency. Its a lie, please stop believing it. I have watched plenty of JP videos, and their bosses have that same weird latency that ours do. It has everything to do with how the game is designed, not ping times. For example, the game does a damage check immediately after a command entry. This is not synced to skill animations, so oftentimes the server will have you damaged well before you even see the skill animating. This is the same across ALL regions and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with pings. Its just a crappy server that is designed to do things in an archaic fashion. If you want to test this out, watch a few JP Garuda runs. You'll see players coming out from behind the rocks before Garuda even does her AOE animation. Why? Because they know that the game does the damage check beforehand. As a result, it all just comes down to timing. If you know when the damage check is, you won't get pwned. Some ppl have suggested using the battle log, but I haven't tried that myself. The point is that latency was never the problem, it was just a convenient excuse used by bad players to cover up the fact that they were sucking.

Whats sad is that everyone ended up believing it, propagating the silly rumors that "JP has an advantage". They never did, they just learned how to play around the odd design. It only has the appearance of being faster, when in actuality, its not. At least not in any practical sense where it would actually make an impact.

No, your right, the lag in those JP videos couldnt possably be because JP players also somtimes play with less then awsome PCs, as all JP players are uber awsome and have uber awsome PCs, this can not possably be a "myth" as everything JP is automaticly AWSOME!!!. (sarcasm)

Second note, for the people who thumbs uped that post, I feel like you should be scoulded like when a dog pisses on the floor, not carpet, its not that bad. More like a dog pissing on tile. Its forgiveable but an anoyance becuase now someone has to come behind you and clean up your mess and correct you, because you should know better.... bad thumbs up, very bad thumbs up.

[Aceofspades]

Dear all

We have successfully acquired a sizable amount of information concerning the network latency (lag) found to mainly occur during the Ifrit Battle thanks to all the feedback contributed by everyone up until today.
This will prove most helpful and we wish to thank you all for your valuable help.

Our development team is currently constructing a play environment that replicates the one everyone else using in order to investigate and test this ongoing issue.

We will be sure to inform everyone as soon as we discover any useful information.
For now however, we won't require any further feedback about tracert data.

Once again we would like to express our sincere thanks to everyone for their kind assistance.

Please note that we are not closing the thread so please feel free to continue posting about any lag you encounter during the Ifrit Battle, or indeed any other relevant concerns you would like to inform us about.

Thank you for your continuing support.

just thought i would bring that into the convo aswell