Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[viion]

I think Doho responded with the right answer. Also marking it in red don't make it fact, still keeps in as "theory". You are making so many assumptions in your rebuttal.

I don't get where you got the idea that I said things will be "more random", so if you care to elaborate I can respond.

Thanks.

Not making any assumptions, have you not done any Primals? They have a token system attached to them. You should check it out then you might understand what im saying

1. 2.0 will be more of the same with RNG, and whatnot...

Elaborated.

[Velhart]

I agree 100%, it is possible to do that, and yes they could have done this better. But that still comes down to a list of priorities.

At the end of the day, the system is what it is, from the interviews I can see them bringing in some updates in the c patch or even 1.23, but I don't see any real changes until the 2.0 beta and then the release. And by real I mean the big changes.

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

[Delmontyb]

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

Good point.

And I agree, not a big fan of RNG. If it was tied with some of the suggestions of the OP then I believe it will work better.

[Sigmakan]

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

I think they've lost sight of that. They've been so concerned with prolonging content that they made a loot system that has really embittered many people towards the game (at least in our LS)

[Delmontyb]

Not making any assumptions, have you not done any Primals? They have a token system attached to them. You should check it out then you might understand what im saying

I've done Ifrit and Moogle and am familiar with how the system works.

You are making assumptions, I'd keep pointing them out but then again we are just going back and forth and getting away from the true point of the matter.

I'll elaborate on the quote you made and took out of context.

While we don't have 2.0 to compare and contrast the development styles of Yoshi-P and Tanaka, I see one of two things happening come 2.0.

1. 2.0 will be more of the same with RNG, and whatnot...
2. Yoshi-P will deliver a game that will surprise a lot of people.

When I say that "2.0 will be more of the same with RNG and whatnot..." I'm talking about the issues that have been brought up in this thread, as well as other threads on the forums. I'm not saying it will be more random at all... Only that it will be "more of the same" aka 1.xx.

Now this is just one of the option, the other is that he could surprise a lot of people, meaning that the game will meat or exceed peoples expectations. This is going to be hard, but not impossible for the majority of players.

What I'm talking about here is the difference between 1.xx and 2.0, between Yoshi-P and Tanaka and their two development styles.

Basically is the system and most of the updates that 1.xx received locked into a framework where RNG is the prime option? Meaning, is it harder to develop something that isn't based off of RNG in 1.xx? I don't know.

And until we get our hands on 2.0 will we truly be able to contrast the two versions, and the two development styles of XIV. Then we will truly see a game that Yoshi-P has created, and not something that the 1/2 the development team kept going to keep us happy until 2.0.

Does that make since?

[Delmontyb]

I think they've lost sight of that. They've been so concerned with prolonging content that they made a loot system that has really embittered many people towards the game (at least in our LS)

You're not alone in regards to the embittered side of it... However, I still wonder if they had much choice in the matter of "prolonging content". Meaning that, while a gamble, they didn't have many other options easily at their disposal. This is just an assumption, as I have no idea how hard 1.xx is to develop on, but basing these thoughts off of how long it took them to develop the content and bring it out, looking at their track record for 1.xx updates.

[Kiara]

I saw this, but I just dont get it, we have Token systems in game now (Primals) with Garuda being the best one. Yet some how he didnt apply the same thing to the relic even though he says he wants to apply that type of stuff in 2.0, dont get it, seems like he is saying what we'd like to hear.

But what does it matter, people will luck out and get relics all over by 2.0 and it be another meaningless non-rare weapon and those who tried over and over will be screwed over as usual until they eventually luck out.

Well said Premium, Elasandria.

While Yoshi P's 1-Up Interview seems to give us some hope, a *Measurable Progression System already exists* right now in the game:

The Totems from Primals. And Garuda specifically with a 100% Totem Drop Rate per Victory.

It's definitely not like Yoshi P and the Combat Team needed to spend resources to "design / write a brand new Tracking / Point System" and thus, decided to focus on 2.0 instead. As much as I support Yoshida-san, that answer smacks of something of a disconnect or a placation / cover-up. And we don't Need or Greed to fix the problems with the current Relic Weapon Quest.

He has the system in place.

Ultimately it seems like the Designers in charge of the Relic Weapon Quest Design chose the most MIND-NUMBING, LAZY way to prolong content with the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate % / Luck / Gambling method.

Seriously, I wonder if some of those Designers enjoy Gambling / playing the Lottery in real life and think all players around the world must "love" Gambling, and rolling the Dice for Relic Weapons as well.

They could've easily implemented numerous ideas brought up by people on the forums (and in this thread also) to add some Challenge and/or at least Measurable Progress with each Victory / Step of the way, with minimal impact to their 2.0 schedule.

[Velhart]

Well said Premium, Elasandria.

While Yoshi P's 1-Up Interview seems to give us some hope, a *Measurable Progression System already exists* right now in the game:

The Totems from Primals. And Garuda specifically with a 100% Totem Drop Rate per Victory.

It's definitely not like Yoshi P and the Combat Team needed to spend resources to "design / write a brand new Tracking / Point System" and thus, decided to focus on 2.0 instead. As much as I support Yoshida-san, that answer smacks of something of a disconnect or a placation / cover-up. And we don't Need or Greed to fix the problems with the current Relic Weapon Quest.

He has the system in place.

Ultimately it seems like the Designers in charge of the Relic Weapon Quest Design chose the most MIND-NUMBING, LAZY way to prolong content with the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate % / Luck / Gambling method.

Seriously, I wonder if some of those Designers enjoy Gambling / playing the Lottery in real life and think all players around the world must "love" Gambling, and rolling the Dice for Relic Weapons as well.

They could've easily implemented numerous ideas brought up by people on the forums (and in this thread also) to add some Challenge and/or at least Measurable Progress with each Victory / Step of the way, with minimal impact to their 2.0 schedule.

The problem is, most likely will happen is they will mostly ignore us on this claim, and just let us complain about it till 2.0 hits, and make us forget about it.

They forget we are paying customers "now" and don't pay 9.99 a month for half-ass service and promises in the next version. We pay for what it is right now, and I know we all want a detailed response in this matter. They need to stop being so vague with the answer and give us a detailed explanation on why they believe this is the best system for us. A lot of this also revolves around communication issues. They won't explain to us why it is this way. The most we have gotten from them is "We acknowledge you are not in favor of it.". Even in the 1UP review, Yoshida wouldn't go into detail.

Is there technical issues that don't allow it? Is the 1.xx team simply not creative? Do they not know how to prolong content? Was our feedback on this matter considered when creating the relic weapon quests?

These are questions I really want answers to. Hopefully when Yoshida is settled back in Japan, he will see this and come out and explain the situation.

[Kiara]

I'm actually really sick of the RNG system. It really disappoints me to see that developers took absolutely no feedback from players regarding the RNG system. Why exactly was the relic weapon quest delayed again? To figure out more ways to depress us?

I do find your answer here funny that we will have a better system in 2.0. Saying we will have the G/N/P system and all, which is great to that. Unfortunately, I am not playing 2.0 right now, I am playing 1.22b. Every time people bring this up, you give us nothing but vague answers to what we want to know.

Let me ask these questions SE, and I would love to hear you justify this...

Why does someone who did the dungeons half as much as me have a full set of Darklight (almost two sets), and I only have a pair of damn gloves? How is it fair that all the effort and time I wasted in your buggy dungeons for almost nothing? Please don't tell me "Just keep doing it!". No, just no. I have successfully beaten CC/AV together 450+ times. That is over 449 times I have been disappointed SE, 449 times. I have not even seen the pieces I want drop. Never even had an opportunity to have someone out lot me on them.

On Ifrit, I had beaten him over 200 times. Never got my Ifrit Blade. Look to the previous paragraph, same way I felt when I did this.

What upsets me the most is you actually put a good system in Garuda where you had tokens go towards a certain goal. Why in the hell was this not implemented into the relic weapons quest? I was starting to think the team was starting to finally get the picture. Apparently not.

While Hamlet Defense seals are not the worst thing in the world to get, it still faults itself by not dropping in appropriate places. If a team get 60k+ points, it should be guaranteed a seal. It upsets me we put the hard work in to get 60k+ and all we have to show for it is a head piece that everyone and their mother now owns.

I currently have a Mailbreaker in my inventory right now. Deciding to not attempt to double meld it until I get all nine of my seals, hoping the Acc+ materia drops in price by the time I get them. I am just scared I am going to be screwed over by the RNG system once again to double meld this. I just have a feeling I am going to get screwed over on this and go through 10 of them before I actually succeed.

And then we fall into the RNG system again for the six items you need from Miser and Chimera, which people are already confirming is an extremely crappy drop rate. I really feel like I am just being heavily played at this point.

How come other games made successful and hard methods to getting legendary weapons while playing it at fair game? Hell, your previous game, FFXI, was able to pull this off also. How long SE till you realize we don't want the RNG system at all? No one wants it, and the only people who do want it are people who are actually lucky or people who don't understand the concept of hard work and effort.

You can stop calling this a theme park, it is only a casino. At a theme park, you get in line, it is a long line, but you know if you know you are guaranteed to get on that ride eventually. At a casino, you either come out with something, or you don't.

Here is my request. I want a fair progression system for 1.xx, I do not want to wait for 2.0 for this. You need to make the next set of relic quests not based around this awful system. You need to make it difficult and fair that bases itself off small progression meeting a bigger goal. I don't want to pull a lever and hope for the best. It is just wrong and there is absolutely no way to justify this system, absolutely none.

I want to hear a direct and detailed response on why the team feels it is necessary that we have to deal with this system. Why they feel that they can't at least put in a token system for dungeons and other primals. I really want to hear a response. So reps, if you see this, and actually care, please urge SE to come out and give a better and more detailed answer to this than what vague statements you have been giving us.

Sorry long post. Here is a tl;dr version. >_>

Hi Velhart,

Great post! Very well worded and summarizes many of the people's feelings on this. (I bolded some of my favorite points by you above.)

I'm in the same boat as you regarding stuff like Darklight from Aurum / Cutter's and even the original Ifrit Weapons. I have beaten Ifrit well over 250 times (I stopped counting), and I STILL don't have Ifrit's Harpoon after all those attempts. I know people who got 7/7 Ifrit Weapons in less than 75 Wins. How is this fair? Or fun?

For Darklight, I've never even seen most of the pieces drop. At some point, people stop caring.

And an excellent analogy rebuttal to Yoshida-san's "Theme Park" description of FF XIV originally. At least at a Theme Park, when you wait in line for a ride, *you will get to experience it* (each "person in line ahead of you" is like a Totem / Point in Measurable Progress towards your goal). Here with Darklight, Materia Melding, Relic Weapon Quest (multiple steps), etc., it really is a CASINO. You're standing in front of a slot machine just mindlessly pulling the lever, hoping one day you might get LUCKY, or just end up looking like those soulless, empty-eyed gamblers sitting in front of a slot machine forever just pulling and pulling the lever until you quit or lose everything.

There's no skill, NO ounce of fun in rolling the dice. It's more of a sense of pent up RELIEF if you actually get a lucky dice roll now (if you happen to get a Seal, or a Double Meld, etc.).

I sincerely hope the Community Reps pass along our thoughts to Yoshida-san and the Relic Weapon Design Team.

[viion]

I've done Ifrit and Moogle and am familiar with how the system works.

You are making assumptions, I'd keep pointing them out but then again we are just going back and forth and getting away from the true point of the matter.

So you're saying Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda currently dont have a token system and im just "assuming it does"?

I cant even talk with you if you think that and are unaware of the tokens....