The Problem(s) with Paladin

[Junpei]

There is one problem with Paladin. It doesn't build hate as quickly at the start of a fight.

I tried Paladin on Chimera last night. Even though I took much less damage and by the end, had way more hate (and did more DoT) than a WAR, everyone complained that they had to hold off when we first engaged. Antagonize + AF Helm is still too strong and with speed runs, people aren't comfortable with that. Speed runs need to be eliminated or PLD needs a move for burst enmity+ Maybe Spirits Within or Hallowed Ground could give +3000 Enmity or something like that.

A nice opening for PLD that generates a lot of hate you might be interested in

Divine veil + outmanouvre = a decent chunk of TP to activate
Sentinel -> flash -> voke = boosted enmity generation from the following abilities from sent and spike enmity from flash and voke
War drum -> phalanx -> spirits within (which is damage x2.5 = enmity)
and it shouldnt take long before you can
fast blade ->flat blade (which is damage x 5.5 = enmity)

little note: during that first part with divine veil up you cant be interupted from spell casting as blocks prevent it, so let your whm have you do the first holy succor on yourself, if you heal for 1k hp thats 600enmity in the bag right there)

(note - I do currently have +164 enmity (16.4%) but only 1 piece of Heavy Darklight :/)
I've been doing speed runs with CC and AV as well as getting 60k+ points in hamlet with only me on paladin.
The second group in our CC run uses a war and he stays as war till after the princess, Steel Cyclone out of combo for 1000 tp is a great cleanup for little ants, all the other DD in that fight go Dragoon and its simply amazing.


Paladin is a damn good tank, I can straight tank the coin counter now, dont even care about 1000t swing (aegis boon or sentinel & divine veil + holy succur (uninteruptable cast) , and every time he uses swipe its a riot blade in the ass for D-Down. On war it was a panic as a single screwup or lag whilst running from swing could bone everything.

There is a skill barrier with paladin. Warrior just needs an ice pack from the friction of rolling your face across the keyboard.

[Eagleheart]

A nice opening for PLD that generates a lot of hate you might be interested in

Divine veil + outmanouvre = a decent chunk of TP to activate
Sentinel -> flash -> voke = boosted enmity generation from the following abilities from sent and spike enmity from flash and voke
War drum -> phalanx -> spirits within (which is damage x2.5 = enmity)
and it shouldnt take long before you can
fast blade ->flat blade (which is damage x 5.5 = enmity)

little note: during that first part with divine veil up you cant be interupted from spell casting as blocks prevent it, so let your whm have you do the first holy succor on yourself, if you heal for 1k hp thats 600enmity in the bag right there)

(note - I do currently have +164 enmity (16.4%) but only 1 piece of Heavy Darklight :/)
I've been doing speed runs with CC and AV as well as getting 60k+ points in hamlet with only me on paladin.
The second group in our CC run uses a war and he stays as war till after the princess, Steel Cyclone out of combo for 1000 tp is a great cleanup for little ants, all the other DD in that fight go Dragoon and its simply amazing.


Paladin is a damn good tank, I can straight tank the coin counter now, dont even care about 1000t swing (aegis boon or sentinel & divine veil + holy succur (uninteruptable cast) , and every time he uses swipe its a riot blade in the ass for D-Down. On war it was a panic as a single screwup or lag whilst running from swing could bone everything.

There is a skill barrier with paladin. Warrior just needs an ice pack from the friction of rolling your face across the keyboard.

100tonze is not only an immediate example, but a sample of things to come. Specifically designing a tank with low HP (partially fixed now) is fundamentally counterintuitive, and the issue will come up again in future content. Repeatedly, in fact.

Additionally, thank you for the note on the incremental nature of enmity. (O.o ) Some players do not believe how small an effect an individual enmity point has on your hate output. Another seasoned PLD pointing out the facts is always useful!

[Zantetsuken]

There is a skill barrier with paladin. Warrior just needs an ice pack from the friction of rolling your face across the keyboard.

Very good point.

When playing PLD, you are constantly busy and having to monitor MP, HP, Hate and the actions of the mob. Playing WAR is rather straight forward and offloads a decent portion of its work to the WHM.

In regards to player workload and attention level, I've found PLD (FFXIV) to be more reminiscent of NIN (FFXI), where WAR (FFXIV) plays like PLD (FFXI).

[Firon]

Very good point.

When playing PLD, you are constantly busy and having to monitor MP, HP, Hate and the actions of the mob. Playing WAR is rather straight forward and offloads a decent portion of its work to the WHM.

In regards to player workload and attention level, I've found PLD (FFXIV) to be more reminiscent of NIN (FFXI), where WAR (FFXIV) plays like PLD (FFXI).

What no way pld in XI was not face roll lol you had to be constantly rotating skills correctly to get hate. If anything nin was watching timers/landing debuffs if you didn't have a rdm.

[Zantetsuken]

What no way pld in XI was not face roll lol you had to be constantly rotating skills correctly to get hate. If anything nin was watching timers/landing debuffs if you didn't have a rdm.

Not completely analogous, but Nin was a far more intensive job overall. (until utsu timers/counters showed up)

Granted, I haven't played since WotG, so I have no idea what PLD or NIN are like now.

[Eagleheart]

Not completely analogous, but Nin was a far more intensive job overall. (until utsu timers/counters showed up)

Granted, I haven't played since WotG, so I have no idea what PLD or NIN are like now.

(o.O ) Pardon me, but I am still curious as to what situation a Paladin permits the inclusion of an extra DD instead of a White Mage. I have inquired several times now, but have not yet seen a reply.

[Judge_Xero]

(o.O ) Pardon me, but I am still curious as to what situation a Paladin permits the inclusion of an extra DD instead of a White Mage. I have inquired several times now, but have not yet seen a reply.

The only situation I see in using a PLD to remove a WHM from the equation, is to run BRD/Thaum. Or some kind of secondary healer/DD/buffer.

As others have pointed out. It's not like PLD can solely heal itself, so the other members are gonna need some heals. But at least it gives the opportunity for more close range melee, to join in on the fight. Instead of Ranged Burn everything.

Not trying to be a douche, but let me fix that for you Dzian

A 12 minute fight is 33% longer than an 8 minute fight. I suppose in some sense you could say that makes the 8 minute one 33% more safe, although it wouldnt be entirely accurate but there is some logic in it.

[Dzian]

Not trying to be a douche, but let me fix that for you Dzian

Actually you're only half right, but then admiteddly so was I.

A 12 minute fight is 50% longer than an 8 minute fight. Given that a 12 minute fight is 150% of an 8 minute fight.
But I will conceed that an 8 minute fight is 33% safer than a 12. so yeah thanks for that correction